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TODD HUDNALL, SR. PASTOR, FIRST ASSEMBLY OF GOD OF SAN DIEGO
PRESENTATION OF RICK WARREN'S PDC
TO NAIROBI PENTECOSTAL CHURCH
NAIROBI, KENYA
NOVEMBER 8-11, 2005
WITH COMMENTARY BY JAMES SUNDQUIST
& CONTRIBUTING EDITOR AND COMMENTARY BY PASTOR BOB DEWAAY
Upon receiving many emails around the world from concerned
Christians that their church or country is being taking over
or "transformed" by Rick Warren's Purpose Driven Church
model and his Global Peace Plan, and others asking me how does
one know their own church has become Purpose-Driven, I felt compelled
to write this article in response to these distress SOS calls
for help. There is a recent article posted on this very transformation
and how to identify it entitled: Are you in the throes of Transformation?
http://herescope.blogspot.com/
- The article was so brilliant, I decided that it would be
very constructive to the body of Christ to build on that very
theme as well as clear up a lot of confusion. What follows is
both an update and a case study of how Rick Warren is taking
over churches and countries. One of the main presentations of
Warren's Saddleback Church staff was given by Todd Hudnall, who
is also Senior Pastor of the First Assembly of God Church in
San Diego, California, who will also be a featured speaker at
the Purpose Driven Conference in Florida in April 2006: http://www.purposedriven.com/en-US/Events/PurposeDrivenPentecostal
- Charismatic-LakeForestCA/Uncompromised_speakers.htm
Excerpts from the Purpose Driven Church Conference:
TODD HUDNALL:
In behalf of Rick Warren...
The message we are sharing you could call an operating system
for the church. Without the Intel chip, the computer would not
work. I believe that the Purpose Driven Church model is a processing
chip for the Church of Jesus Christ. I believe it works whether
it is in San Diego, California, or Kenya Africa. It works because
it is God's purpose. It is God's plan....And what God has done
through Dr. Rick Warren is provide a model which we can fulfill
those purposes and become the prevailing church that God wants
us to be....This message is very Biblical.
RESPONSE:
Well this message is very much NOT Biblical. The operating system
for the church is not an object. It is a Person...the Person
of Jesus Christ and the Person of the Holy Spirit (who will lead
you in all truth). Jesus Christ is the author and finisher of
our salvation whether in the First Century or the 21st Century.
Jesus did not say apart from a computer chip you can not operate
but he said "apart from ME you can do nothing!" So
Hudnall's and Warren's premise is fatally flawed. And even if
the operating system for the church is an Intel Chip, computers
didn't even exist in the church for nineteen hundred years.
So how did the church function all of these years without this
chip? How did the church function before this chip? According
to so-called "post-moderns' and PDCer's, it didn't. The
old model (the Biblical "preaching Jesus Christ," repentance,
being born again, warning of coming judgment, Hell) is a dismal
failure. What audacity to proclaim that Rick Warren's method
holds the key that throughout the ages the church has missed.
Maybe this is why they are so intent on re-writing the Bible
and promoting perverse translations of it!
At the end of this conference Hudnall changed the definition
from "a processing chip" to the processing chip or
model for the 21st Century Church. This boastful statement means
that every church which does not have Rick Warren's purpose-driven
model is outside of God's plan. If you don't go along with it,
they claim they will try to help you find another church you
are happy with. But why would you want to do that, if in so
doing you would by conclusion be OUTSIDE of God's Plan. There
are a great number of accounts in which there is not even another
local church to send them packing to because all the surrounding
churches too have become purpose-driven. And even if the analogy
of the "Intel Chip" were true...that the operating
system for the church must be run by this chip, then the chip
is defective because it would recognize that the model would
not work in a computer which was a synagogue or Roman Catholic
church because these are another gospel. This operating system
which they claim "is God's plan" fails to recognize
the Apostle Paul's own words that "I have not failed to
give you the WHOLE counsel of God." Apparently not, since
Paul forgot to supply us with the counsel of Warren's Purpose-Driven
model.
PASTOR BOB DEWAAY'S COMMENTS:
1) Pastor Hudnall makes a very bold claim--that Rick Warren
has invented a new operating system for the church. With computers,
the operating system is the most essential part of the computer.
Take out the CPU chip and the computer is dead and worthless.
Can we believe that the Church itself is dead and worthless without
Warren's plan?
2) How can a program (PDC) not invented until the 20th century
have such a key role? Without the operating system the computer
is dead. Does this mean every church that existed since the Day
of Pentecost was dead? If not, then evidently these churches
had something analogous to an operating system before. So what
was the previous operating system that is being removed and replaced
with the PDC one? The speech in question does not tell us what
that old CPU was that has to go. If they cannot answer these
questions, their claims should be dismissed.
3) Biblically what is most analogous to an operating system
in a computer is Jesus Christ as the head of the church and the
Holy Spirit as the life of the church. Either PDC is removing
these to replace them with the new processor or PDC is not really
a new operating system and they are making a false claim to say
that it is.
4) The speech in questions uses the terms "God's plan"
and "Purpose Driven" synonymously. In logic this is
called "begging the question." Why should we have to
accept the idea the Purpose Driven is indeed God's plan before
we have heard any evidence that it is? They claim too much for
a man-made program.
5) They would have to admit that the Purpose Driven model
did not exist during the New Testament. It is up to them to prove
that what they are doing is able to improve on the teachings
and practices of the New Testament, without compromising them.
They fail to prove this and there is much evidence that they
do compromise those teachings.
TODD HUDNALL:
....Back 1992 I became acquainted with Dr. Warren and his Saddleback
model for the Purpose Driven Churches, and heard what God was
doing at Saddleback. At that time I was looking for answers.
And when I saw this model, I said this is God's plan. This
allows us to fulfill what God wants us to fulfill for his church.
So I brought this model to our church we begin to the church
and we begin to see immediate church growth, of consistently
seeing 20% growth every year. Let me say that percentage is
a good percentage. When you get much faster than 20% it is difficult
to keep up with the growth. You can do it. But it becomes very
difficult. Signs and wonders and miracles begin to happen.
I have seen revival, but I have seen revivals actually damages
churches over time because they lose their focus, they lose their
purpose. They begin to see the move of God as something for
them...to help them fulfill their agenda.
RESPONSE:
The fact remains that Rick Warren does have an agenda, that is
his personal blueprint for the earth.
PASTOR BOB DEWAAY'S COMMENTS:
Again the speaker (Hudnall) is begging the question. That he
THINKS/THOUGHT that it is God's plan does not prove that it is.
That his church grew and there were signs and wonders does not
prove this was from God. False religions grow and have signs
and wonders. What he does not prove is that the Purpose Driven
model is taught in the New Testament. He is appealing to personal
experience rather than scripture. We need to consult the Bible
for the appropriate agenda.
TODD HUDNALL:
I believe God wants to bring a revival to Kenya, but there needs
to be a way to handle it. You can not pour new wine into old
wineskins. We've got to have a wineskin that the Holy Spirit
can use...that can contain the revival that God wants to bring.
So I believe that the Purpose-Driven model is such a wineskin.
RESPONSE:
Once again, Warren's PDC program redefines the Scriptural meaning
of words. The old wineskins referred to by Jesus Christ himself
were the Old Covenant and the Traditions of the scribes and Pharisees...the
religious leaders in Israel. The new wineskins in Scripture
refers to the New Covenant. There is no replacing the new covenant.
According to Hudnall's logic the church which functions as the
new covenant must be replaced by another new covenant or new
wineskin. Rick Warren has convinced millions of people that
the church that must be transformed. Warren's reformation reverses
the first Reformation and insults the church at large which has
been persecuted and martyred throughout this present age which
somehow mistakenly thought it was carrying out the "deeds"
of the New Covenant. Rick Warren has usurped the authorship
of the new wineskin.
Purpose Driven Church is a man-made invention of Rick Warren,
therefore it is impossible that it could be a new wineskin.
The church does not need a wineskin that the Holy Spirit can
use (as though up until Rick Warren came along, it did not already
have wineskins that the Holy Spirit could use since the foundation
of the church)! In fact, in reality Hudnall and Warren have replaced
the New Covenant (new wineskin) with much of the SAME old wineskin
of the Old Covenant and Traditions of men, putting unnecessary
burdens on Christians and stealing away their liberty in Christ.
Rick Warren and Todd Hudnall need to read the seven woes that
Christ laid on the Pharisees and scribes (see Matthew 23:13-29)
as well as the first chapter of Galatians before they continue
to put Christians right back under bondage. The old wineskin
was Rabbinic Judaism and the Old Covenant practices. The new
wineskin is Messianic salvation and the church build on the rock
that the gates of Hell will not prevail against. What the gates
of Hell can't prevail against does not need replacing (with a
new wineskin). Judaism as it was would not be able to hold what
God was doing such as in Acts. The claim that some man-made
movement that did not exist until the 20th century is what Jesus
meant by "new wineskins" is indefensible Biblically.
The new wineskin has existed since Pentecost and it will never
become the "old wineskin" until Jesus returns and sets
up the kingdom. This shows that bad theology and bad Biblical
exegesis is common practice in PDC.
TODD HUDNALL:
You are to reach that community and bring the community in to
become part of the crowd, then after they become part of the
crowd, then after you bring them in to be part of the crowd ...you
bring them and make them be part of your congregation, then they
become committed in growing in Christ, finally they become your
core people for ministry...turning them into an army making them
part of your core...your center.
RESPONSE:
This model is found nowhere in Scripture and in fact is backwards
regarding the order. Seek he FIRST the Kingdom of God. Seek
the light (His Word) and he will supply the fellowship or community.
PASTOR BOB DEWAAY'S COMMENTS:
This is the fundamental error of the seeker movement. The Lord
adds people to the church through saving them (Acts 2:47). The
"crowd" is outside of the church and should be the
subject of gospel preaching, not trying to change the church
to make it attractive to the unregenerate mind.
TODD HUDNALL:
BUILDING YOUR CONGREGATION...(Outer Circle)
Concept of membership is very biblical. It is taught all the
way through the New Testament.
In First Corinthians Chapter 12, it tells us that the Holy Spirit
takes us when we receive Jesus Christ and plunges us into the
Body of Christ...In First Corinthian 13...you may be eyes, you
may be ears you may be nose...
'Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me'. Saul could have said
I'm not persecuting you, I'm persecuting the church. Jesus is
saying if you persecute the church you are persecuting the body
and that is me. ... We need to belong to the church family.
Ephesian Chapter 2, Verse 19 says this: 'Now you are no longer
strangers to God and foreigners to Heaven, but you are members
of God's very own family.' And you belong to God's household
with every other Christian. Notice we are members of his Body.
Membership is biblical. Romans 12:5 says this: 'In Christ,
we who are many form one body, and each member belongs to all
the others.'
Now it is important that we explain the benefits of membership,
the value of membership and the importance of membership. So
when people come to your church you want to let them know that
they can become a member. And when people join, it gives them
significance, it gives them meaning, it gives them purpose, it
gives them connection and it gives them community...Church membership
is really a step of spiritual maturity... How you do it is you
create a climate where people want to join. Now there are two
things that people crave most. People want love and people want
acceptance. All of us want that. We were designed to desire
that. We want to be loved and accepted; WE crave that....And
those are the two things that Jesus commanded us to demonstrate.
In John 13:35, Jesus said this: 'By this you shall all men know
that you are my disciples that you love one another.' The church
is to show people that come to it love! Romans 15:7 says 'accept
one another just as Christ has accepted you'. We are to accept
people that come in to our church just as Jesus accepted us...
Now in American there is a stereotype some have of the church
of it being judgmental, of it being critical, of it being condemning.
The church should never have that kind of reputation. The church
should be loving and accepting to people. Now here is a fact
you need to know: 'Growing churches love, and loving churches
grow.'...
RESPONSE:
Read God's Word. It is judgmental, critical, and condemning to
those who are in rebellion, not born again, living according
to their own plans. Biblical churches might shrink! The Mormon
church is loving and the Mormon Church is growing.
PASTOR BOB DEWAAY'S COMMENTS:
Again there is a purposeful erasing the boundary between the
church and the world. He fails to distinguish between membership
in a 501 c 3 corporation (local organization that people join)
and membership in the body of Christ which happens through conversion.
The passages he cites have to do with the type of relationships
true believers have with one another. But in the PDC model, they
integrate the regenerate and unregenerate and confuse the unity
of the corporation with the true unity through the gospel that
true believers have. That God is loving is true. That we should
be loving is true. But for the unregenerate to be converted,
they must be convinced they are law breakers abiding under God's
wrath unless they repent. Telling them these truths is loving.
The idea that we will "woo" sinners into the church
by being nice people; all the while failing to tell them of the
peril they are in as sinners is not Biblical.
TODD HUDNALL:
Church growth expert Wynn Arndt...he did a study of 10,000 church
members all over America and rated them according to friendliness.
And after he did the rating, he found that in every single denomination,
the friendliest, they were the fastest growing. And those that
were considered friendly, weren't growing...And if you want people
to be a part of your church, you have to create a climate of
love and acceptance. Now the single most important factor that
causes people to stay in your churches is relationships...People
will come to your church for all kinds of reasons, but they stay
in their church because of relationships...Now the Bible refers
to biblical relationships by a word, and that word is fellowship.
RESPONSE:
The Bible also says:
Eph 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of
darkness, but rather reprove [them].
PASTOR BOB DEWAAY'S COMMENTS:
I wonder how "friendly" they would consider Stephen:
ACT 7:51 "You men who are stiff-necked and uncircumcised
in heart and ears are always resisting the Holy Spirit; you are
doing just as your fathers did.
ACT 7:52 "Which one of the prophets did your fathers not
persecute? And they killed those who had previously announced
the coming of the Righteous One, whose betrayers and murderers
you have now become;
ACT 7:53 you who received the law as ordained by angels, and
yet did not keep it. "
Again, they make the same error over and over: trying to "woo"
the unregenerate by making the church look appealing to them
in their lost state rather than preaching for conversions.
TODD HUDNALL:
And there is a lot of myths about fellowship....Small churches
are friendly and large churches are cold and impersonal. And
that's not true...Small churches can turn into a cliques. You
know what clique is? They won't let others in.....Actually often
large churches are more accepting, because the only way you are
going to grow bigger is by caring about individuals, not by caring
about crowds.....an impersonal church will not grow.
The largest church in the world today is in Seoul Korea...is
a church of around 750,000 people...
RESPONSE:
He is referring to David (Paul) Yongii Cho's church. Is this
a good example of a Christian leader? What Hudnall failed to
tell you is who the pastor of this church is and what he teaches.
Let us see what this man teaches:
Similar to Rick Warren's SHAPE Program, Rev. Cho's Fourth
Dimension theology is based on occultist Carl Jung. "Cho's
mystical foundation is built upon the sands of Sigmund Freud's
and Carl Jung's subconscious mind rather than the rock of Jesus
Christ (1 Cor. 3:11)."
http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/exposes/cho/general.htm
OCCULT HEALING BUILDS WORLD'S LARGEST CHURCH: THE INFLUENCE
OF PAUL YONGGI CHO
http://wayoflife.org/fbns/occulthealing.htm
PASTOR BOB DEWAAY'S COMMENTS:
Agreed, Cho is a heretic and if he is an example of anything,
it is the example of compromising the gospel to gain the approval
of men.
HUDNALL:
We have to have our churches organized in such a way that we
create a climate of love and acceptance
... At Saddleback Church...we do the same thing at our church...Every
first time visitor we give 'first impressions' card... Our church
wants to serve you better. Would you please give us your opinion.
We ask three questions: this is what I notice first, this is
what I like best, this is what I like least. Let me give you
some reactions of cards at Saddleback Church:... 'people were
warm and friendly, they were friendly people, I feel warm and
comfortable and at ease, there was a warm and loving atmosphere,
I felt comfortable and happy.'...The church is an organization
that is built for the benefit of non-members to see them become
members.
RESPONSE:
This is just one more example of the error in Warren's teachings...more
Robert Schuller and Bill Hybels. Opinions, opinions...and still
more opinions...looking for the " I feel warm and comfortable
and at ease," response. Opinions were never the foundation
of the true churches built throughout the church age. How about
hearing a truly anointed, Holy Ghost breathed sermon? Where sinners
cringe under the mighty hand of God and whose hearts fail them
because of the dread of the Lord and his coming wrath, where
they fall on their faces before the living God or run to the
altar to repent and be saved? The preaching of God's Word is
convicting!! That is the Work of the Holy Spirit! To convict-
it is not to make us feel comfortable in our sin!! Hudnall is
advocating building a community in direct conflict with the true
work of the Holy Spirit. The world will be offended at the preaching
of Jesus, the true Gospel. They will be extremely uncomfortable
and hate it. So the Bible tells us this, again and again. The
church is not build for non-members. It is build for believers
to be trained up in righteousness and the instruction of the
doctrines of the Apostles. Certainly non-members will benefit
if they repent, but it holds virtually nothing for them as non-believers
unless they are hearing the Word of God. We already have Rotary
Club and many other wonderful organizations that offer community
and good deeds, Once again, this is upside down and backwards
theology which is paving the way to Kingdom Now theology.
PASTOR BOB DEWAAY'S COMMENT:
Agreed: "Woe unto you when all men speak well of you."
HUDNALL:
We have a three minute rule...you have to greet people you don't
know... One of the greatest needs people have is for friendliness,
there is a need for that. The church must provide friendliness.
People aren't just looking for a friendly church, they're looking
for friends. They're looking for relationships.
RESPONSE:
. Is this, "friendship," the focus of the Bible? Does
this even remotely resemble the teaching of the Prophets, Jesus,
disciples? I could address this further, but Paul Proctor has
already written one of the best articles which should help demolish
this stronghold entitled: Religious Relativism. http://www.newswithviews.com/PaulProctor/proctor50.htm
PASTOR BOB DEWAAY'S COMMENTS:
Agreed; this is the same error repeated over and over, we have
to give the unregenerate what they are looking for. The Bible
tells us what they are looking for:
EPH 2:3 Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts
of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind,
and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.
What they want is not just friendship; but they want self-fulfillment
in this world without submitting to God on His terms.
TODD HUDNALL:
Now I want to say some things that are not in the notes...I particularly
want to talk to the pastors who are here... How do you develop
a caring congregation. Well let me tell you, it always starts
with leadership... One the greatest things you can do to help
your church grow pastor, is to smile.
RESPONSE:
I hear John Maxwell coming out of every pore of this statement
about leadership. Just 'put on a happy face," right? I
can certainly imagine Hananiah the false prophet smiling while
he told the Israelites only good things are going to happen to
them (see Jeremiah 28:15,16). We know the Jeremiah wasn't smiling,
Scripture only records his great anguish. In fact there is whole
book by Jeremiah entitled LAMENTATIONS. So you can follow the
smile, or you can follow the truth that Jeremiah preached. Were
David, Paul and Jesus...all of whom despaired unto death smiling
in this despair? The Book of Habakkuk is devoted to this prophets
COMPLAINTS. So shouldn't he have not complained so his congregation
so he could recruit more followers and so his congregation would
grow?
TODD HUDNALL:
There is nothing worse than a sad, sour, frowning pastor.
RESPONSE:
Actually there are many things worse than a sad, sour frowning
pastor....such as a smiling pastor like Robert Schuller who is
false teacher of the highest order, leading multitudes astray.
And Rick Warren is usually smiling and his teachings all riddled
with falsehood. I would much rather listen to the sad and frowning
Jeremiah or Habbakuk than to a smiling false teacher. And even
a true teacher may often need to be sad as Paul was with bitter
tears and tearing his robes as he watched false teaching come
into the early church. A pastor should be sad when there is
sin in the body of Christ.
A smiling pastor proves nothing. Doesn't Hudnall know that
the siren's call of the harlot is no doubt with a smiling face.
Here are are accounts of flattering speech in the Old Testament...I
am quite certain these enticements to sin were not "sad,
sour, or frowning":
Job 32:21 Let me not, I pray you, accept any man's person,
neither let me give flattering titles unto man.
Job 32:22 For I know not to give flattering titles; [in so
doing] my maker would soon take me away.
Psa 12:2 They speak vanity every one with his neighbour: [with]
flattering lips [and] with a double heart do they speak.
Psa 12:3 The LORD shall cut off all flattering lips, [and]
the tongue that speaketh proud things:
Pro 7:21 With her much fair speech she caused him to yield,
with the flattering of her lips she forced him.
Pro 26:28 A lying tongue hateth [those that are] afflicted
by it; and a flattering mouth worketh ruin.
Eze 12:24 For there shall be no more any vain vision nor flattering
divination within the house of Israel.
And regarding people being led astray with smiles on their
faces, we read:
Isa 30:10 Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets,
Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things,
prophesy deceits:
Jer 5:31 The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear
rule by their means; and my people love [to have it] so: and
what will ye do in the end thereof?
And how does Hudnall think seducing spirits described by Paul
are going to appear? With "nothing worse than a sad, sour,
frowning"? Are Satan's servants masquerading as servants
of righteousness going to come across with "nothing worse
than a sad, sour, frowning"?
Here are but three New Testament Scriptures to refute Hudnall's
false premise:
"For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and
shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if [it were] possible,
even the elect. Mark 13:23 But take ye heed: behold, I have
foretold you all things." Mark 13:22-23
"...by good word and fair speeches deceive the heart
of the simple" Romans 16:18
Th 2:5 For neither at any time used we flattering words, as
ye know, nor a cloke of covetousness; God [is] witness:
TODD HUDNALL:
...If you want to know the temperature of your church, how warm
your church is, the first thing you have to do is stick a thermometer
in your mouth. Because as goes the leader, so goes the church...You've
got to work at being friendly...personally I am a little bit
of an introvert...so I've had to force myself to get out of my
comfort zone and reach out...and be loving and be friendly....Be
approachable, be real... We have to continue to develop warmth
and integrity and people skills. There are many good books actually
that can help you. I know many of you are familiar with John
Maxwell. He has written many books about people skills. There
is a book very famous in America, and I think around the world
by Dale Carnegie, it is called How to win friends and influence
people. It is not a Christian book
RESPONSE:
John Maxwell is the President of Injoy Ministries in San Diego.
(Todd Hudnall is a pastor in San Diego). He was one of the speakers
at Summer 2005's Willowcreek Summit with Rick Warren. John Maxwell's
books are not good books! This section on John Maxwell is an
article in its own right so I made it an appendix (see Appendix
A), made all the more critical when I discovered that John Maxwell
wrote the foreward for John Jackson's book Pastorpreneur, the
other major speaker at this same Purpose Driven Church conference.
I recently corresponded with Kevin Trevithick
who is in charge of Warren's SHAPE (301 Class) program at Pastor
John Jackson's church: Carson Valley Christian church in Nevada,
website: http://www.carsonvalleychristian.com/. I had written
him an appeal to reconsider presenting this Jung-based personality
temperament divination to his members. In an email dated 3/17/2006,
Trevithick responded with defending his extensive theology training
and stated: "I prefer associations with those who focus
on what they are FOR, rather than what they are AGAINST."
This is rather a startling response in light of the fact that
eight of the Ten Commandments are comprised of what God is "against"
and a great deal of Scripture is devoted to what God is "against."
Even the third speaker Dr. Phil Walker (of the three major speakers
listed on program as Rick Warren's staff), touted John Maxwell.
Phil Walker is the President of International Christian Ministries.
From their website http://www.icmusa.org/partnerships.php: "ICM
coordinates the programs of Purpose Driven Ministries in Africa
and the Middle East." ICM has also formed a direct alliance
with John Maxwell from their website: "ICM has agreed to
represent John Maxwell's Million Leader Mandate in Africa. The
goal of this program is to see over 300,000 leaders go through
six courses developed by Equip. This program is scheduled to
run through 2008." Phil Walker is a major global player
in Warren's worldwide Purpose Driven schematic who was responsible
for setting up this conference in Nairobi, as well as spearheading
five seminaries and conferences in twenty-four countries putting
on two hundred conferences a year. So it is impossible to dismiss
the magnitude of John Maxwell's role and impact in Warren's Purpose
Driven Church campaign. Here is John Maxwell's endorsement of
John Jackson's book:
"If you're thinking your way through developing a new
church or being an agent for change in your present ministry,
Pastorpreneur is worth reading. John Jackson knows what he's
talking about because he's lived it..."
From the Foreword by John Maxwell Source: http://www.pastorpreneur.com/reviews.html
Upon visiting his own personal website as well as his church's
website, I find that he too promotes John Maxwell's books as
valuable resources as well as Mormon author and New Age promoter
Stephen Covey. See:
Carson Valley Christian Center in Minden, Nevada and the President
of VisionQuest Ministries
http://www.drjohnjackson.com/who.html
http://www.carsonvalleychristian.com/
Dale Carnegie. What in world is Hudnall doing promoting the
book of someone who is not a Christian to a conference of pastors
and Christians? He doesn't seem to have any problem with seeking
the counsel of the ungodly and promoting it on top of that.
Hudnall quotes the Scripture in this purpose-driven church conference
that the natural man understands not the things of the spirit,
yet goes ahead and promote the natural man Dale Carnegie who
is not a Christian. The title alone from Dale Carnegies' book
How to Win Friends and Influence People should be a red flag
to Christians and particularly pastors like Hudnall. Hudnall
should have said to this congregation regarding Carnegie's title
and teaching:
"Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the
friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore
will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God." James
4:4
Hudnall also seems to forget 'Blessed is that man that maketh
the LORD his trust, and respecteth not the proud, nor such as
turn aside to lies.' (Psalm 40:4) Dale Carnegie, a non-believer,
tells us how to win friends and influence people while Scripture
tells us that friendship with the world is enmity with God.
So, Mr. Hudnall, you can't have it both ways!
TODD HUDNALL:
But it has very good principles about how to be loving and how
to be friendly toward people. Now let me give you some ideas
on how to show you are approachable towards people...people 'why
did you come to Saddleback and why did you come back?' People
will see what they like about the church...the positives Next
explain to them the baseball diamond...
RESPONSE:
Yes please do explain to us the baseball diamond. I discuss
Rick Warren's baseball diamond in Appendix B. Warren's Discovery
Classes (his baseball diamond) 101 - 401 have little to do with
salvation and sanctification or Christian theology but are about
taking oaths to commit ones self to serving a PDC.
TODD HUDNALL:
Here is a letter that Pastor Rick received from someone who visited
his church and visited his house. They said: 'Pastor Rick is
just a real person, like I am. I feel that he would like me
just as much as I liked him. This is an attitude you can even
develop. Let me tell you a place you can develop this pastors.
It is in your pulpit.. When you are real, people know that
you have struggles. You too have challenges...just be honest
about it... That's one of the things about God. He became a
man so that he could become approachable in the person of Jesus....
RESPONSE:
And where is this doctrine taught in Scripture? Jesus came to
pay the penalty for sin and to appease his Father's wrath! Having
done this, Jesus Christ is not more approachable...in fact he
is a rock of offense, despised and rejected and we esteemed him
NOT. See Psalm 22 and Isaiah 53 and:
Rom 9:33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone
and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not
be ashamed.
1Pe 2:8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, [even
to them] which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto
also they were appointed.
PASTOR BOB DEWAAY'S COMMENTS:
Saying Jesus became a man to become more approachable to we should
therefore make ourselves approachable is a misrepresentation
of the purpose of the incarnation. It merely makes Jesus a "good
example to follow" rather than the unique One who provided
a substitutionary atonement.
TODD HUDNALL:
Dale Carnegie said: 'There is no sweeter word in any language
than a person's name to them.'
RESPONSE:
Of course if you're trying to build a business, knowing the names
the names of your customers is very important. Of course it
is universal that we all appreciate having people in the church
know our names. But from a Biblical perspective, hearing our
name is sweet depending on whether we are guilty or not! If
hearing the voice of the Lord calling out to them was so sweet
to the hearing, then why did Adam and Eve hide and cover their
nakedness? God called out Cain's name after he murdered his
brother. Was Cain's name being called sweet for Cain to hear?
Saul called out Samuel's name in the account of the witch of
Endor. Did Samuel think that was sweet music to his hears?
No, he was very upset at being disturbed from the grave, when
Saul practiced divination.
And what about when Jesus asked the demon-possessed man what
his name was? The answer was "Legion, for we are many".
Now were these demons think their name being called was "no
sweeter word" when Jesus then cast them out into a herd
of swine? One demon even asked Jesus if he came to torment them...as
the time for them to be cast into the Lake of Fire had not come
yet. And Abraham, Jacob, and Saul in the Book of Acts, all had
had their names changed, so their new name would have been much
sweeter because the Lord changed their names. And this is now
the second time we hear Hudnall recommending the counsel of Dale
Carnegie, a non-believer. The sweetest word in any language
should not be my own name, rather it should be the name of Jesus
Christ, the Rose of Sharon.
.TODD HUDNALL:
..Actually scientists tell us that by not being touched enough
can have skin deprivation. True we need to be touched....
RESPONSE:
Is 'feely' 'touchy' the proper focus of the church? The Apostle
said it was good to not even touch a woman.
TODD HUDNALL:
Why don't you say that with me: 'give them a look, give them
a word, and give them touch.'...Here is a copy of a note that
Pastor Rick Warren received from one of the people of his church.
It said: 'Pastor Rick, I can't tell you what it meant to me
when on Friday, you put your arms around me in comfort. It felt
as though Jesus' arms were holding me in such compassion and
tenderness. I know now that I will make it through this not
so exciting time. And I know he sent me here so I could feel
God's caring love'... Here is another note he received....'thanks
for making me feel special.'...Here is another thing, use humor....if
you make jokes about yourself, you will always have a lot to
joke about...
Each of us have to make a decision. Are we going to impress
people or are we going to influence people. Because you can't
do both. You can impress people from a distance, but you influence
them up close... We have to get close to people if we want to
influence them.
RESPONSE:
This is more mumbo jumbo. The Apostle Paul spent most of his
time a great distance from the churches he started and those
he simply wrote to in his letters. He had great influence on
them at a distance. And he instructed his epistles to be read
and circulated to other Christians and churches, many of which
were far away in time and distance. In fact his influence throughout
the Church Age is far more extensive than any he saw or touched
up close. Jesus Christ in fact even rebuked Thomas for having
to "touch" his wounds while commending those who believed
and obeyed who never even say Jesus' face in era, or the rest
of us who are Christians living in the 21st Century. I am in
many ways more influenced by brothers and sisters around the
world that I correspond with that I may never meet until the
Wedding Supper of the Lamb. Conversely, I know many people that
I am up close to in which I have no influence and they have none
on me. Using geographic distance as formula is at best precarious
and can be shot full of holes simply by observing New Testament
accounts of church life.
PASTOR BOB DEWAAYS COMMENTS:
I would say that he (Hudnall) creates a false dilemma. Either
influence/ or impress. We are not seeking to do either; we are
seeking to be faithful to God through gospel preaching so that
He, by His grace will convert them. Whether they are influenced
or impressed with us personally is of little concern. The power
is through the Holy Spirit convicting.
TODD HUDNALL:
Healthy churches have pastors who are not afraid to get up close
to people. Accept and affirm diversity among your members.
Healthy churches focus on unity, on uniformity...
Now the thing that we don't want to do is use guilt to motivate
people. Because that is not accepting. You see here is the
reason a lot of us use guilt to motivate people. Because it
works. But it is not healthy. And over the long term it is
going to be damaging.
RESPONSE:
This notion is patently absurd. All of the Prophets of the Old
Testament laid a guilt trip on the people, whether Noah, Jonah,
Jeremiah, etc. Guilt is good if you are guilty...that means
you are convicted of sin. The preaching of repentance in both
testaments was to point out their guilt. Over the long term
it is damaging if you refrain from teaching them they are guilty...as
'all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.' Guilt
motivates people to repent. So do you think they are going to
repent if they think they aren't guilty, if faith cometh by hearing...but
they never hear that they are guilty as Warren tragically does
in his Ladies Home Journal column? As to what is "healthy"....the
healthiest thing that Nathan the Prophet could have done to David
was to tell him he was guilty in his adultery with Bathsheba.
David was motivated to repent! Pastor Bob DeWaay demolishes
this stronghold of false teaching about a healthy church in his
book Redefining Christianity. As a pastor, you better worry
if your congregation is not motivated by guilt. People with
reprobate minds whose consciences have been seared like a hot
iron are not motivated by guilt. This is the FINAL stage of
apostasy and could not be more UNHEALTHY. The Scriptures warn
us about this state of mind. Christians everywhere should be
thankful to the Lord that they still have the ability to feel
guilty...it is a great and righteous motivator!!!
PASTOR BOB DEWAAYS COMMENTS:
The Biblical pattern is to preach the law that shows people their
own guilt before God and preach the gospel so they see the only
hope for escape. We are not motivating them to serve us, but
to turn to God and receive the free gift of salvation. He (Hudnall)
doesn't make it clear about motivation to do what, so it makes
the issue muddy.
TODD HUDNALL:
We have a membership class in our church. And some issues that
we teach are personal preferences and personal convictions are
up to the individual...I shouldn't judge him over his convictions
and he shouldn't judge me over my convictions...preach the word,
live your convictions. Don't preach your convictions. And in
your church, if you want to be an accepting church, you have
to accept the fact that you can't push convictions on people.
Everyone has to live their own convictions...understand that
we live in a time when people mainly don't choose a church because
of its denomination. They choose a church that meets their need..
Romans 14:19 says this; 'Let us concentrate on the things
that make for harmony and the growth of our fellowship together.'
RESPONSE:
He uses the PH translation. Let us Compare this verse to KVJ:
"Let us therefore follow after the things which make
for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another."
Romans 14:19
Note there is nothing in there about church growth! In fact
there is nothing in Scripture that gives us a mandate to grow
the church or commandments to do so!
TODD HUDNALL:
Augustine said this: 'In essentials we have unity, in non-essentials
we have liberty, and in all things we show charity."
RESPONSE:
"This famous motto of Christian Irenics, which I have slightly
modified in the text, is often falsely attributed to St. Augustin
(whose creed would not allow it, though his heart might have
approved of it), but is of much later origin. It appears for
the first time in Germany, A.D. 1627 and 1628, among peaceful
divines of the Lutheran and German Reformed churches, and found
a hearty welcome among moderate divines In England." SOURCE:
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/hcc7.ii.vii.viii.html
TODD HUDNALL:
You see there are some essentials, you have to believe that salvation
comes through faith alone in Christ alone...
RESPONSE:
Yes, the doctrine of salvation through faith alone is essential
(as this is what the Reformation was about). Countless Christians
could have saved themselves from being burned at the stake by
simply denying this Sola Scripture doctrine. It is curious as
to why Rick Warren is forming an unholy alliance with the Roman
Catholic Church for his purpose-driven programs when the Roman
Catholic Church put forth in the Council of Trent that those
Protestants who hold such views are anathematized (cursed).
TODD HUDNALL:
Now if you will do some of these things as a leader and you treat
people with love and acceptance, you'll have no problem in getting
people to come to your church.
COMMUNICATE THE VALUE OF MEMBERSHIP....
what membership should be is not conformity, but commitment...
That is the difference between someone who just attends your
church and someone who is becoming a member of your church.
An attender is a spectator. A member is a participant. An attender
is consumer, but a member is a contributor....You become a Christian
by committing your life to Jesus Christ. You become a church
member by committing yourself to another group of Christians.
Now it is not just a commitment to God it is a commitment to
other Christians. If you are going to become part of the church,
you become part of a family. A family where you love...and where
you are loved....and all members, the Scripture says, belong
to one another. It's called fellowship The Greek word is the
word Koinonia...It means being committed to each other just as
we are committed to Jesus Christ. That is genuine fellowship.
Now there are three parts to the Christian life...Believing
(Acts 16:31), Belonging (Ephesians 2:19)...and then Becoming
(Romans 8:29)....and a Believer without a church family is an
orphan. There should be no orphan Christians. You need to be
part of a church family...There are at least 30 commands in the
New Testament that you can not obey unless you are committed
to a local body of believers...You can't do that unless you have
other believers around you. So in your church, you need to communicate
the value of membership. And you do it by telling people the
benefits of membership.[end side one]
RESPONSE:
So let me get this straight. Pastor Hudnall is suggesting that
if you are a Christian and not a member of local church, you
are an orphan. Well just to be sure, I did a search on Blueletterbible.org
for every occurrence of the word "orphan" in the Authorized
King James Bible. To my great surprise, the word did not even
come up on the search. So I checked the New American Standard
and other translations. The word came up, but in cross-referencing
it to the Scriptures the word orphan was translated as "fatherless."
I also checked it against the Greek and once again it is the
word "fatherless". So, you might ask 'what's the difference?'
Well let's go back and plug in the more accurate rendering
of the word into Pastor Todd Hudnall's axiom. It would now have
to read: 'a Believer without a church family is fatherless'.
Now we are not referring to literal orphans which are fatherless,
rather this teaching by Warren's ambassador is referring to the
spiritual definition of "orphan" or a believer in Christ
who is supposedly an orphan. Is this true? Well let's examine
the relevant Scriptures to find out.
Jhn 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power
to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his
name:
"I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you."
John 14:18 NASB
Rom 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again
to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby
we cry, Abba, Father.
2Cr 6:18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my
sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
Gal 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might
receive the adoption of sons.
Gal 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit
of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children
by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of
his will,
Now even if we were to use Todd Hudnall's definition of a
Christian "orphan". He would not be referring to literal
orphans...his intent is obviously spiritual orphans. Yet it
is the height of hypocrisy to label believers without a local
church as "orphans" when in fact it is Warren's Purpose
Driven Church model that has created a host of "orphans"
by purpose-driving them out of church after church as evidenced
in part by this documentation of how Rick Warren uses spiritual
eugenics for his policy of selective reduction of saints he calls
"resisters" and "pillars" along with his
partner John Southerland (Churchtransitions.org) calls Sanballats
('leaders from Hell') and Valley View Christian Church, a PDC
in Dallas, Texas which promotes 'Creative Destruction', and the
Assemblies of God call 'We Build People' and 'Transformation'
(based on Warren's principles) . For proof see: Spiritual Euthanasia
http://www.letusreason.org/Current61.htm. This article is posted
on a number of ministries around the world. Just type the title
in your Google search engine for a list of them.
Therefore, I think we would all be wise to let Jesus Christ
and his Apostle Paul define who is an orphan (fatherless) in
a spiritual sense. And Jesus did come when he sent the Holy
Spirit at Pentecost. So from that time forth EVERY Christian
ceases to be an orphan the nanosecond or twinkling of an eye,
they become a believer and remain so. Hudnall would have us
believe that there are now two classes of Christians...one group
that are members of a local church and therefore not fatherless
vs. another group which remain orphans until they become a member
of a local church. But the Bible teaches that without Christ,
all men are orphans and in Christ, none are orphans. So there
are two groups all right. All men who are Christ-less are orphans
and all men who are not saved are now no longer orphans but adopted
sons!!! And just like the Judaizers that both Jesus and Paul
warned us about and Paul even cursed, no sooner are Christians
set free in Christ, then Rick Warren comes along and puts them
right back into the bondage of the Law, Traditions and philosophies
of men...a program that would be a Pharisee's dream, shipwrecking
the faith of many, putting them in a worse state, and disqualifying
themselves for the ministry. In conclusion, it is true that are
commanded to not forsake the assembling of one another. But
forsaking the assembling, or simply being in transit between
churches, or being forced or purpose-driven out of a church does
not make a Christian an orphan.
PASTOR BOB DEWAAYS COMMENTS:
PDC redefines the church and joining such a church that is more
of a community gathering of religious consumers than a gathering
of the blood bought children of God is not what the Biblical
passages have in mind. Since God wants us to gather together
for true fellowship; and since according to 1John 1 we only have
that through the blood atonement; and since the PDC doesn't preach
the blood atonement publicly, I would urge all people in PDC
churches to leave those and find churches where the unsullied
preaching of God's Word is found.
TODD HUDNALL:
Now most church bring in new members accidentally. But if you
are going to be a purpose driven church you do it intentionally...there
is a plan...there is a process... Develop a plan to assimilate
new members. Assimilate is turning outsiders into insiders.
Proverbs 20:18 says "Make plans by seeking advice.'
There are 12 questions you need to ask about a membership
class.
A strong membership class will grow a strong church. This
is not a doctrine. Your goal is to impart a vision in people
so that they will give you a commitment. Understand this is
not a doctrinal class. It isn't about doctrine, it is about
philosophy. .. In my church, my wife actually teaches the class...
New members need to see your vision and your personal vision
as the pastor. This is not a new believers class. That class
needs to explain what is a church. What are the purposes of
the church. What are the benefits of being a member. They need
to know the benefits. What are the requirements? What is the
strategy?... Develop a membership covenant. II Corinthians 6:5
says this:'they first gave themselves to the Lord, then by God's
will they gave themselves to us.' Now in a marriage ceremony,
what is the most important part of the ceremony? THE VOWS.
The membership covenant are the vows of becoming a member.
RESPONSE:
So apart from the fact that Warren's membership covenant strays
from Scriptural commands regarding oaths, as we have outlined
above, Warren is not even correct in his analogy of church membership
to marriage. First of all a person becomes of member of the
Body of Christ the minute they become a Christian. There is
no second membership. Yes we do identify with a local expression
of the body and should not forsake the assembling of one another
and should be accountable to a local church. But Warren has
created a false analogy. In our spiritual marriage, Christ is
the groom and the Church is the Bride. And each individual member
of the Body of Christ comprise the Bride. So we, in effect,
are married to Christ (technically we are betrothed until the
Marriage Supper of the Lamb), NOT TO THE CHURCH. In Pastor Hudnall's
example we would be married to ourselves. If he wants to draw
a comparison of church membership to marriage, then he would
have to apply God hating divorce to his model, in which case
members (whom he calls "resisters") can not be removed
from the church accept for unfaithfulness and immorality. Yet
that is precisely what he advocates through his Leadership Training
documents. A recent example is 165 members being recently ousted
from Gardendale Baptist Church in Corpus Christi, Texas because
they opposed the teachings of Rick Warren.
Rick Warren raises the stakes by comparing church membership
to marriage is the gravity of the error of the false analogy...all
believers are ALREADY the bride of Christ, and Christ alone is
the groom.....the church is not the groom. This is heresy of
the highest order and something I shared with Richard Bennett
because it is what Roman Catholicism did! Here is what Richard
Bennett, Director of Berean Beacon and a former Roman Catholic
Priest has to say about comparing marriage vows to church membership
vows...the same mistake Roman Catholicism has made in usurping
the role and the authority of the church from Christ himself:
RICHARD BENNETT:
Control in Conscience on the same level as Vows to God
Warren's Purpose Driven Megachurch program is 'religion' in its
worse possible understanding of the term. Like unto the Church
of Rome it is a religion of control over the souls of men and
women. The Roman Church gets people in by her sacraments and
once in, she exercises her control by her Canon Law. The method
of Warren is to win multitudes with a sham gospel (which we will
document below), and then to control them with 'a membership
covenant'. The membership covenant is explained "in the
same way" as marriage vows. Warren's teaching is,
"The most important part of a marriage ceremony is when
the man and woman exchange vows. Before witnesses and God, they
make certain promises to each other. This covenant between them
is the essence of the marriage. In the same way, I believe the
essence of church membership is contained in the willingness
to commit to a membership covenant. It is the most important
element of our membership class."
To put commitment to a Church on the same level as marriage
vows is utterly immoral. Marriage vows are a creation ordinance
from God, in the Scripture there are no vows instituted by God
regarding obedience to the Pastor(s) of a church. Though the
Pharisees imposed burdens on the people, they never came anywhere
near demanding a submission on the same level as the vows of
marriage. To demand obedience at a level God reserves to Himself
in His creation ordinance of marriage is immoral. However until
these false vows of membership are exposed for what they are,
these vows, through false guilt will augment the increase in
numbers of this new type of a Megachurch founded and implemented
by Warren....The false genius of Warren is to pretend to stand
in God's place so as to control the souls of men and women.
People are led to believe that their vow to church faithfulness
is a vow to God just like a marriage vow.
This is the ultimate tool of those who desire to have dominion
of multitudes. Entice people into a system and then with persuasive
techniques show them the necessity of committing themselves to
loyalty to the system by means of a vow. Men and women think
because they have made such a vow or covenant, if they criticize
the church that they will have sinned against God. The church
system thus uses these false vows for control of conscience of
the members. Such so called church vows or covenants are false
and void. Since in Revelation chapter 17 we learn that Romanism
will gather into herself the whole of apostate Christendom, called
"Mystery Babylon", we suspect that what we are seeing
is not just a movement, but that it is indeed the beginning of
an apostate empire that can easily work with the Church of Rome
and be one of her daughters. SOURCE: http://www.bereanbeacon.org/articles/rick_warren_purpose_driven.htm
Bob DeWaay, Pastor of Twin Cities Fellowship and author of Redefining
Christianity, Understanding the Purpose Driven Movement, does
an excellent treatment on oaths in his new book in Chapter 4,
Redefining Christian Commitment, further refuting Hudnall and
Warren's teachings regarding oaths and vows as they apply to
the individual Christian.
TODD HUDNALL:
Now at Saddleback there are four requirements for membership:
First of all, That you have a personal relationship with Jesus
Christ as your Lord and Savior
Second of all you must be baptized in water as a public symbol
of your faith
Third of all you must complete the membership Class 101
Fourth, you must SIGN the commitment to abide by the membership
covenant...
Now would rather have the complainers leave or the committed
followers leave? I would rather have the complainers leave and
the followers stay! And that is what a membership class does.
Now when you establish and adopt a membership class, you are
deciding who's gonna stay. It is about philosophy and strategy.
Because people and churches rarely divide over doctrine, they
usually divide over philosophy and strategy. So here is the
Saddleback covenant. You should have this in your manual......Relationships
are the glue that keep people in the church...So we need to close
the back door of our church by getting people into small groups...
Don't apologize for asking people to make a commitment. You
make the class so good that they will want to come to the class.
RESPONSE:
Complainers vs. followers. This is also addressed above in an
earlier paragraph. Let me just add that many of these "complainers"
had legitimate biblical grievances. So yes, I would much rather
have these people in the church who are not afraid to sound the
alarm on His Holy Hill when they detect false teachings. In
response to a question from the congregation about what to do
with people who are already members...Hudnall says that they
don't have to take the membership class. Yet saints all over
the U.S. And Canada, in fact, are being removed or marginalized
because they won't sign Warren's new covenants. Also see: Paul
Proctor's article on relationships: Religious Relativism.
http://www.newswithviews.com/PaulProctor/proctor50.htm
Finally at the end of the sessions, Todd Hudnall tells us
that great leaders in Rick Warren's Purpose Driven Church model
must rightly divide or handle the truth. He quotes II Timothy
about Paul's instructions to Timothy which states:
"Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that
needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth"
II Timothy 2:15
But I find this admonition almost beyond belief. This document
proves that both Warren and Hudnall have distinctly NOT rightly
divided or handled the truth. So these workers of iniquity do
need to be workmen ashamed and should be disqualified and silenced
according Paul's teachings in Scripture.
Hudnall continues to ram home the same mantra we have heard
all over the world that the vision of the pastor determines who
stays and who leaves the church. But once again, this a blatant
usurping of power and abuse of spiritual authority. The Holy
Spirit holds the authority of who goes and who stays in a church.
Church discipline, according to Scripture does give instructions
on grounds for being expelled from a church...but this must be
on moral grounds with documentation and two or more witnesses.
And even then, a path of restoration is created should the disciplined
involved repent and/or make restoration. A difference in philosophy
can NEVER be the grounds for biblically driving a person from
the church.
APPENDIX A
JOHN MAXWELL'S TEACHINGS
John Maxwell's teachings are at the core of much of Warren's
Purpose Driven programs and philosophy and touted by both Todd
Hudnall (Assembly of God) and Dr. John Jackson (American Baptist).
So I am devoting more extensive treatment to him in this documentary.
John Maxwell is a another major player in social engineering.
Mr. Hudnall believes ministry starts with good leadership.
Hudnall endorses John Maxwell a second time at the end of his
PDC conference when he states: "Everything rises and falls
with leadership." Well what kind of leader in ministry touts
a well known eugenicist Thorndike as John Maxwell does in his
"good" book. Besides Edward Thorndike (evolutionist,
eugenicists, humanist, atheist), the parade of false teachers
and teachings that Maxwell promotes in his books is quite staggering.
Just some of them include: Norman Vincent Peale (33rd Degree
Mason), Robert Schuller Richard Foster, Agnes Sanford (pantheist
and Carl Jung disciple), Napolean Hill, New Age Psychologist
James Allen, Temperament divination, Kay Arthur (THRIVE), Zig
Ziglar, Bill Hybels, and of course Rick Warren. The Assembly
of God (and of course all Christians) should be be particularly
horrified by Agnes Sanford's definition of the Baptism of the
Holy Spirit (see Richard Howe's article below). If there is
any doubt that John Maxwell is a false teacher, read the following
documentaries:
Midwest Outreach article entitled Some Concerns about John
C. Maxwell by Richard G. Howe, may be accessed at: http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/exposes/maxwell/general.htm
&
Berit Kjos article:Strange Journeys: Jane Fonda, John Maxwell,
Norma McCorvey, and Scott Peck -- what do they have in common?
http://www.crossroad.to/articles2/05/journeys.htm#maxwell
&
Steve Muse
Eastern Regional Watch
http://www.erwm.com/Temptation_for_Another.htm
*************
II. Behavior Modification
In his book Developing the Leaders Around You, John Maxwell endorses
Behaviorism Psychologist Edward Thorndike (pg. 124)
Maxwell states:
"Behaviors immediately rewarded increase in frequency; behaviors
immediately punished decrease in frequency."
Well here is more what Thorndike believed:
"Edward L. Thorndike, Cattell's famous protégé,
also adopted Galton's views on inherited intelligence. As a true
believer in race science and evolution, he believed that man
was an animal that could be trained as an animal. Thus, he invented
the stimulus-response technique of behavioral education. He wrote
in 1911:
Nowhere more truly than in his mental capacities is man a part
of nature. His instincts, that is, his inborn tendencies to feel
and act in certain ways, show throughout marks of kinship with
the lower animals, especially with our nearest relatives physically,
the monkeys. His sense-powers show no new creation. His intellect
we have seen to be a simple though extended variation from the
general animal sort. This again is presaged by the similar variation
in the case of the monkeys. Amongst the minds of animals that
of man leads, not as a demigod from another planet, but as a
king from the same race.
Thus, the idea that man was made in God's image went out the
school window. Both Cattell and Thorndike had fathers who were
Christian ministers. So they knew the Bible very well. Their
apostasy destroyed American education. Thus, with America's top
educators adapting the ideas of eugenics to the problems of education,
eugenics as scientific racism acquired widespread respectability.
It should also be noted that the I.Q. test was a direct result
of the eugenics enterprise, serving as a means of sifting out
the mentally superior. " See:
Eugenics and the Christian Ethic By Samuel L. Blumenfeld http://www.chalcedon.edu/Report/2000sep/blumenfeld_eugenics.htm
Note that John Maxwell quotes Edward Thorndike. Here is
another quote from Edward Thorndike:
"Schools would serve as "instruments of managed
evolution, establishing conditions for selective breeding before
the masses take things into their own hands" (now I quoted
that from a published essay by Edward Thorndike at Columbia Teacher's
college in 1911).
Thorndike was a Eugenicist (selective breeding of humans which
of course leads to population control as in China, and ultimately
is racist at its heart... abortion is a modern, politically correct
form of eugenics - elimination of undesirables).
Edward L. Thorndike, mentioned above, who would "oversee
the training of more empirical characterologists than any other
American, [and had] sung the praises of this [eugenics] movement
in a 1913 lecture: 'Eugenics, With Special Reference to Intellect
and Character.'"Good Genes Not Enough Character Education
needed for Race Betterment " Watch Unto Prayer http://watch.pair.com/charter2.html
As I said before, this is all repackaged Dale Carnegie's How
to win friends and influence People, whom Todd Hudnall also quotes
and promotes as you will see below. Prosperity Doctrine with
more spin. I wonder how Maxwell and Hudnall would respond to
the following:
Some saints who never became leaders fulfilled so God would be
glorified:
1. The thief on the cross
2:
"And others had trial of [cruel] mockings and scourgings,
yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:
They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were
slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins;
being destitute, afflicted, tormented;
(Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts,
and [in] mountains, and [in] dens and caves of the earth.
And these all, having obtained a good report through faith,
received not the promise:" Hebrews 11:36-39 (or fulfilling
their capacity for leadership so God would be glorified?)
FEW OR NONE OF THESE BECAME LEADERS...IF ANYTHING THEY WENT
THE OTHER WAY AND BECAME SLAVES, PRISONERS, AND PERSECUTED.
3.
"Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor
of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he
hath promised to them that love him" James 2:5
"But ye have despised the poor. (NIV renders this "But
you have insulted the poor!") Do not rich men oppress you,
and draw you before the judgment seats?" James 2:6
4. The saints in Revelation who loved their lives not unto death
were far more commended than any or many mighty (few of which
will entire the Kingdom of God)....these saints in Smyrna and
Philadelphia whom the Lord had nothing against...and for the
most part did not become leaders. Wouldn't I rather be the Christian
God called me to be than become a leader if this is not what
God has for me? So my question for Mr. Maxwell, is why would
we want to become the type of person that God says very few of
which will enter the Kingdom.
5. Not many should be teachers (leaders) as the will receive
a stricter accounting. So if we are not called to be leaders,
how will God be glorified....as though God is not already glorified
with or without any pitiful efforts of man or his meager filthy
rags works?
Lessons in Leadership from the Word of God. The Maxwell Leadership
Bible. Notes and Articles by John Maxwell. New King James Version.
Here is the advertisement:
"No matter who you are, someone is following you as you
follow Jesus. God is glorified when you fulfill your capacity
for leadership! Discover your astonishing potential to impact
the world for Christ." (underlining mine)
Where, Mr. Maxwell, do you find in Scripture that God is glorified
when we fulfill our capacity for leadership?
What about the humble servants who were obedient to the Lord?
The widow (and her mite).
The woman (prostitute) who broke the alabaster jar and anointed
Jesus' feet.
The Apostle Paul.
How would Mr. Maxwell respond to the following Scriptures?
"For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might
live unto God.
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I,
but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the
flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and
gave himself for me. do not frustrate the grace of God: for if
righteousness [come] by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
Galatians 2:19-21
And...
"And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh
with the affections and lusts." Gal 5:24
And...
"God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of
our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me,
and I unto the world." Gal. 6:14
And...
"Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned,
in whatsoever state I am, [therewith] to be content. I know
both how to be abased, and I know how to abound: every where
and in all things I am instructed both to be full and to be hungry,
both to abound and to suffer need.
I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me."
Philippians 4:11-13
So the Apostle Paul says I have not yet achieved it, but John
Maxwell tells us all even if we are not Christians, it is within
our reach? Regarding Maxwell and Warren....why is it all of
these people always have "principles" and "laws"
of Christ? Don't they know it is not Christ's principles or
laws that redeem us and ransom us out of darkness, but the PERSON
OF CHRIST HIMSELF and the PERSON OF THE HOLY SPIRIT that sanctifies
who we are in Christ...not those who are outside of Christ.
Finally, it is not even surprising that Hudnall promotes John
Maxwell, because the whole Purpose Driven Church and its clone,
the Assemblies of God's Vision of Transformation and We Build
People, practice their own version of Edward Thorndike's elimination
of undesirables in the church by simply renaming the practice
"blessed subtraction" or "dealing with "resisters"
and "pillars", or as Hudnall puts it "complainers".
APPENDIX B
RICK WARREN'S BASEBALL DIAMOND
Now it is interesting that Warren picks an American sport.
How does he explain his baseball diamond to countries which
either never heard of baseball as a sport or far prefer soccer?
So which team is on the Lord's side, the offense or the defense?
How do you get to first base (CLASS 101)? Works of course...you
have to hit a run. But what if you hit a home run? Do you go
immediately to home plate (CLASS 401)? But you can also get
to first base if the pitcher throws four balls...or hits you
with the ball...so you get to first base not on your works, but
other mans errors. Who is the umpire in this game analogy?
What if he calls you out in three strikes and you never get to
first base at all? But let's say you somehow make it to first
base. There you have to sign a covenant of membership in spite
of Jesus' very strong warnings about oaths. But at any point
in time you can be called out if you don't make stealing second
base (CLASS 201) , or batters that follow you are struck out
or pop-flied out. So let's say that you somehow make it to second
base only to have to take another covenant pledging to tithe
in spite of the fact that Paul tells us to give WITHOUT compulsion.
So then somehow by perhaps your own effort or that of a teammate's
hit, you make it to third base. And what is third base, still
another covenant you must sign (CLASS 301). But this one is
probably the worst because you are forced to take a personality
temperament profile which is in effect practicing temperament
or divination. It is bad enough that you have to take the profile,
but worse that Warren promotes it and makes it binding upon his
membership of his church and the very training manual being presented
to hundreds of thousands of churches all over the world. Home
plate is CLASS 401. But now they have CLASS 501. How do you
get a fifth base into a four base sport? And how many runs do
you need to win? Who's side is the pitcher on? What if the
batter rarely if ever makes a hit, but is a good shortstop who
rarely if ever even makes it to first base? The game is rigged
and titled in favor of good batters. Does the other team get
to bat? Pastor John Jackson declared at this conference that
"you get no credit for people (runners) left on base."
Well this is troublesome for a least three reasons: (1) Why
do you get credit at all or want the credit (assuming even that
the baseball diamond is a valid symbol of the church) for someone
getting saved (first base)? (2) Where in Scripture do we get
permission to measure results which PDC model insists on doing?
(3) Jackson indicts his own model of using the analogy of a
baseball diamond because the thief on the cross was stranded
on first base without going to the other three bases, as were
a host of martyrs and persecuted saints throughout the church
age. Rick Warren's baseball diamond analogy raises more questions
than it answers and introduces more requirements upon a Christian
that are burdens beyond what is written in Scripture for Christians
but it also introduces requirements which are distinctly PROHIBITED
in Scripture. |