Comparing Psychology, Renovare & Richard Foster, Carl Jung Teachings to Scripture

 

[Editor's note: "We were told by Richard Foster's ministry that he is not a psychologist. I thought you might want to make this correction on your Foster articles. God bless you."
Deborah Dombrowski
Lighthouse Trails Publishing - EndofNote]

 

 

Original Message -----
From: Ken Logan
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2003 3:12 PM
Subject: RE: Comparing Psychology, Renovare & Richard Foster, Carl Jung Teachings to Scripture

I do not appreciate your spam, especially when it is done in the name of our Lord. Your promotion is invasive and would not expect Christ to advocate your methodology. Although I may agree with most of your point of view, I am in disagreement with how and why you are sending the information out. Your approach shows you have gone beyond conviction dear brothers, you are entitled & justified. This is not a fruit of the spirit. You have an axe to grind, not a loving message to deliver. I plead that you search your heart and find out the real reason why you feel the need to deliver a good massage in such an irresponsible way. Ripping off emails from a website to promote a cause is not the same as sending out information to people interested in out point of view. This is the same mentality that justifies killing abortion doctors. I will pray for you.

 

Please, remove me from your email list.

 

Thank You,

 

Dr. Kenneth A. Logan.

Adjunct Faculty, Western Seminary.

Pastor, Registered Psychologist

 

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Rock Salt Publishing [mailto:rock.salt@verizon.net]
Sent:
Tuesday, October 28, 2003 5:48 AM
To: NajiAH@att.net; Doctorda@pacbell.net; sanderson@2live4.com; jackb@covinapsych.com; robtboyle@aol.com; PsychRebel@aol.com; ccampbell@georgefox.edu; lecarlos@jps.net; macarr@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca; Dokimazo@aol.com; pcheyne46@yahoo.com; TYCO33@aol.com; CarDep@aol.com; dietlein@attbi.com; beck@apu.edu; BeEge39@yahoo.com; LNFerguson@aol.com; drbjfrancis@earthlink.net; gfrincke@csus.edu; GJGabler@aol.com; ndgiesbr@ucalgary.ca; Thaddaeus@charter.net; claudiagg@spu.edu; donnagd@gorge.net; ihs369@msn.com; Marksusanamy@aol.com; amy-lynne@juno.com; DocHouck@worldnet.att.net; DJenersonMadden@psych.sccu.edu; DoloresJ@aol.com; calox1@earthlink.net; ljorgens@lasierra.edu; drdean@mobynet.com; GKragen@aol.com; lifeskill@softcom.net; KDDocs@aol.com; PaulCLo@msn.com; drlogan@doctorlogan.net; lamp@mtaonline.com; Rosalie999@aol.com; AnnMacL@juno.com; julimaki@aol.com; eieio@spu.edu; rcmcdon@gte.net; don@iolvegas.com; nimsl@primenet.com; msnoble@attbi.com; utpramann@aol.com; RichardAPreuit@att.net; RCRStonehurst@compuserve.com; DBRose102@AOL.com; CRosik@worldnet.att.net; AgapeCnslg@aol.com; DianeS7@worldnet.att.net; mschultz@bauercom.net; khtshaw@pacbell.net; shawk@cws.state.ca.us; kshrable@uswest.net; jsneep@kingsU.ab.ca; s_e_spradlin@yahoo.com; dctownsend@nnu.edu; pdtrice@hotmail.com; walker@fuller.edu; dwalther@sbcaz.org; EWMS@ix.netcom.com; Info@ChristianMentalHeath.com
Subject: Comparing Psychology, Renovare & Richard Foster, Carl Jung Teachings to Scripture

 

Dear CAP Members,

 

In view of the fact that the Church is a major player in importing and implementing Psychology and Carl Jung's teachings as well as Richard Foster's Renovare and Spiritual Formation, including Psychologist Dr. Craig Ellison's Integrated Psychospiritual Counseling Model, I invite you to read the following review.

 

I invite you to consider and read my documentary on Richard Foster, based on my recent dialogue with Lynda Graybeal, Richard Foster colleague and spokesperson for him at Renovare, comparing the teachings on Spiritual Formation, Centering Down, Meditation, and Psychology to Scripture.

 

 

Kindest regards,

 

James Sundquist

President

President Rock Salt Publishing



PSYCHOLOGY DEBUNKED
Review by James Sundquist


I  just could not wait to read and review PSYCHOLOGY DEBUNKED after hearing its authors, former psychotherapist Lisa Bazler & Ryan Bazler, in their
hour-long insightful interview on Chuck Crismier's VIEWPOINT Radio Program on the Internet.  Upon reading the book, I would mark five stars for every stellar point they made.  I kept wondering, "will they cover this issue?"
Or, "I hope they don't say something doctrinally unsound!"  Well I was not
disappointed.    Virtually every question that you might pose regarding the
viability of psychology was answered.  And every question whether it offers
any hope to Christians was answered.

In reviewing the book, I first simply wanted to list all of the great
specifics why psychology is not compatible with Christianity, why it is not
science, and why there is no pathology to support it.  But I love to talk in
pictures or parables.  Then it struck me.  I saw a picture of a huge ball of
yarn which had been completely tangled, mangled, gnarled, and knotted.  I
thought to myself, who can possibly untangle this ball of yarn?  This ball
of yarn is Psychology.  Well, the authors have managed to do just that.
They dismantled and removed every knot in the ball of yarn.  What is even
more amazing is that when they finally completed their mission of unraveling
the ball of yarn, the yarn had completely vanished.  There remained no yarn
left to make anything...not enough for a sweater, not enough even for a hot
pad, and certainly not enough to build the emperor's new clothes.
Tragically, the world and the Church is so smitten by this ball of yarn,
they continue to knit imaginary garments for the emperor and all mankind.
But there is no garment for the king and there are no real garments for
anyone to wear with this ball of yarn.

This book is so easy to understand, but that should not be surprising.  The
Scripture tells us to not stray away from the simplicity of Christ.
Psychology has complicated and knotted the yarn.  When the authors finishing
demolishing every argument that defends psychology, it was so obvious and
simple, a child could understand it.  But that should not be surprising
either, since the Lord also tells us to come as a child...in fact it is the
only way we can come.  Just some of the examples the authors make as clear
as the water that flows down from the Oregon mountains is that the Bible
teaches that fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.  Psychology
counsels no fear of the Lord at anytime in any of its therapies, let alone
at the beginning.  So there is no wisdom in it.  The Bible teaches that
there is body, soul, and spirit; psychology says there is only the body and
the soul.  The Bible teaches us that it is Holy Spirit that will lead us in
all truth and that it is sharper than a two edged sword, dividing even the
soul from spirit.  Psychology doesn't even believe in the Holy Spirit.  The
Bible teaches us about our eternal destiny.  Psychology offers no hope for
eternity.  The Bible teaches us to lay up for our selves treasures in
heaven.  Psychology offers no concept of heaven to lay up your treasures
for.  The Bible says seek ye first the kingdom of God and all these things
(our needs) will be added unto us.  Psychology doesn't seek first the
Kingdom of God, in fact it never seeks the Kingdom of God.  The Bible
teaches that our help comes from the Lord.  Psychology tells us our help
comes from one or more of unproven theories and tens of thousands of
psychotherapists whose ideas were drawn from paganism, divination,
astrology, humanism, and evolution.  The Bible teaches that being lovers of
selves is mankind's problem.  Psychology teaches that being lovers of selves
is the solution.  Bible teaches that we can come freely to drink the waters
of life.  Psychology charges for it.  The Bible offers the opportunity of
becoming a new man in Christ.  Psychology offers an improved or even damaged version of the old man.  The Bible teaches that our strength is perfected in weakness and that in suffering, sin loses its power.  Psychology teaches us how to balance our strengths and weaknesses with personality profiles derived from paganism and divination.  The Bible esteems the contrite and broken spirit.  Psychology esteems self-esteem.  The Bible teaches us to
rejoice in the suffering or being persecuted with Christ to produce
character and overcome the world.  Psychology has no interest in Christ's
suffering, our suffering with Christ, or sees any redemptive value in his
shed blood.  The Bible teaches that Jesus Christ believed in demon
possession and delivered those possessed.  Psychology teaches that there is
no such thing as demon possession...so there is nothing to be delivered
from.  The Bible tells us how to be blessed in the Beatitudes.  Psychology
doesn't even comprehend blessing, so it can not offer anyone a blessing
because it omits the person required to administer these blessings, that is
Jesus Christ.  The Bible tells us we can't produce the fruit of the spirit
which is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
gentleness, and self-control without abiding in the vine which is Jesus
Christ himself.  Psychology attempts to bear this fruit by abiding in the
teaching of such founders as Carl Jung and Sigmund Freud who opposed
Christianity!

The Bible teaches that there are primarily three things that are required of
every Christian: (1) Salvation, (2) Sanctification, and (3) Carry out the
Great Commission so that others may receive.  Psychology can't offer
Salvation, Sanctification, and is unable to and does not even pretend to
offer the Great Commission in order that others might be saved and
sanctified.

So Christians, Pastors, and every "Christian Psychotherapist" needs to be
asking the question: "So then why are we offering Psychology?"  The authors
answer this question so thoroughly, that it should be required reading in
every Christian College and Seminary (and that is most of them) that teach
Psychology as a valid tool for sanctification and training in righteousness
and helping people.  The Church needs to wake up too and stop  integrating
and mixing the Gospel with the Religion of Psychology in its programs too!
You can not serve two masters!  Choose today whom you will follow -- the
Mighty Counselor and Intercessor, or your flawed psychotherapist as your
counselor!  Psychology is based on myths while Paul in his Second Epistle to
Timothy said to turn aside from myths!  As Solomon said, there is nothing
new under the sun, and Psychology, showing it true colors, draws its ideas
from the foundation right back to the Garden of Eden..... "someone else made
me do it!"  Adam and Eve could not blame their problems on their environment
or their ancestors.  Psychology implies that everyone is a victim and no one
is a sinner (no one is guilty)!  Lisa & Ryan hit the nail on the head with
this book because they lead you right back to The Book for the right answers
to all of your problems.  They list every major reason a person goes to a
psychotherapist, then give you every Scripture that will really solve your
problems and your imaginary problems...and your life.  The authors prove
that Psychology offers no help to the secular world which is not Christian
and it certainly does not offer any hope or help to a Christian.  Therefore,
I must give it my highest rating and commendation...fives stars.  I would
recommend it to anyone who truly wants to be delivered from bondage!!

Psychology Debunked is available at:
http://www.psychologydebunked.com

**************************
DIALOGUE & DEBATE:  JAMES SUNDQUIST VS. RENOVARE (RICHARD FOSTER & LYNDA GRAYBEAL)

SUBJECT:

 

"Comparing the teachings on Spiritual Formation, Centering Down, Meditation, and Psychology to Scripture"

 

October 4, 2003


Dear Lynda, 

As I promised, I have studied and prepared a response to both of your last emails. I have also reviewed any statements in my correspondence to you as to what I did or did not say. My responses are in blue below your statements (except for the links which are already in blue).  I will also send this as a file attachment in the event that there are formatting problems.

In some cases I formatted your statements in bold to better help identify what statement upon which I am focusing. I will respond separately to your email of September 23rd in a day or two.  Since your emails contain all of my emails to you, I can search and verify if I have stated what you say I state. 

The thing I found most notable in your September 15 email was not so much what you said or responded to, but what you did not respond to. I devoted a great deal of the initial part of my letter attempting to determine whether or not you are a Christian, according to the Scriptures which I supplied to you. I already know that Richard Foster calls himself a brother in Christ.  

You did make some references to Christ's teachings. But in your September 15 letter, I did not get the impression that you are claiming to be a born again Christian, again according to the Scriptures I submitted. Now you very well could be. Would you kindly respond: Are you a Christian....redeemed by the Blood of the Lamb?  

The answer is important, because there are a number of Scriptures that deal with how we are to respond to people who call themselves a brother or sister in Christ vs. how we are to deal with a person who is an unbeliever. Just because you have an association with Richard Foster, who claims to be a Christian, does not necessarily mean that you are one....though you could be. But because by your own declaration you are identified with him, I would be properly grounded to exercise the appropriate Scriptures in responding to you. 

Sincerely, 


James Sundquist

President

Rock Salt Publishing

****************

15 September 2003

 

Dear James,

 

Thank you for answering my question about your motivation for making the comments and asking the questions that you do about Richard Foster. Taking your statement that "Only a fool makes up his mind without hearing both sides of a story" (Letter from James Sundquist to Mary Fairchild posted at http://www.cephas-library.com/discernment/discernment_2_false_accusations_fairchild.html) at face value, here are my answers, first to the factual errors that you repeat, errors in logic that you and web sites like Lighthouse Trails make, a theological issue, and exegetical issues.

 

RESPONSE:

I am not sure why you are quoting me here. So I would like to clarify that I had already heard Richard Foster's side of the story by virtue of all of his published materials and website and his own quotes. Now it is possible that someone could simply make up a quote and say he said it. But this is a question of fact, and can easily be verified by going right to the source, such as his book Celebration of Discipline. You even quote from this book, so it is not as though Richard Foster's story is not known. So I never made up my mind before hearing (reading) his side of the story.

 

 

FACTUAL ERRORS

1.     Your statement: Vaswig is co-founder of RENOVARE. The facts: Richard Foster founded RENOVARE in 1988, and the incorporation papers are signed by himself and his wife with myself and a friend as witnesses. Vaswig was not involved in founding RENOVARE and has been involved in RENOVARE only because he has been on our Board of Trustees since 1989.

 

RESPONSE:

 

If Lighthouse or other links I supplied made this statement and it is not correct, I am glad to know this. So, who originally did make it? You should confront this person. However, the fact remains that William L. Vaswig is still very much identified with Richard Foster, given that he has been on the Board of Trustees since 1989? If William L. Vaswig's teachings do not line up with the Scriptures wouldn't you disavow him and remove him from your Board of Trustees?  Your letter to me conveys the idea you are trying to distance yourself from William L. Vaswig. If that is so, why do you offer and recommend his books on your Renovare website? You may be "technically" correct about Vaswig's title, but it still creates the appearance of evil to the multitudes of outsiders who are attempting to discern Renovare's position(s), before they import its teachings or one of its teachers.

 

 

 

Later in your September 15, 2003 letter to me you state that simply quoting a person does not mean you agree with everything else they say or publish. That is true enough, and it would certainly be even rare where one agreed 100% with another authors' quoted sources, unless they quote accurately and directly from the Bible. But if you are going to claim this priviledge regarding Richard Foster quoting Merton or Jung, then you must accord to me the same priviledge when I quote someone who has either misquoted or incorrectly quoted another author or link. If we were accountable for every single quote or misquote, there would be no end in sight because...one way or the other....virtually every book ever written that quotes another author eventually ends up having quoted a large percentage of every book ever written. Same applies to links. If you kept clinking links on someone's site, eventually you would land on every website there is....that is if you have a million years.

 

2. Your statement: Foster and Vaswig have "held many conferences". The facts: The only RENOVARE conferences that Vaswig has spoken at were held in Wichita, Kansas, in 1989; in Pasadena, California, in 1991; and in Houston, Texas, in 1999. In my opinion, three does not constitute "many". You probably learned about the "National Conference on Spiritual Renewal" held in Pasadena from other web sites who have picked up their information from MEDIA SPOTLIGHT written by Al Dager, a distorted and skewed account of what happened.

 

RESPONSE:

 

If as you claim and can prove that Al Dagers statements are incorrect, distorted, or skewed, have you confronted him directly? If you have the concern you have expressed in your September 15 letter, wouldn't you need to exercise Matthew 18 that you told me I should do? If you are so concerned that I talked to Lighthouse Trails about your statements, then why are you talking about Al Dager to me? And after all, you had no problem discussing the people at Lighthouse Trails Publishing with me. So turnaround is not fair play? You have accused them of bearing false witness, yet you indicated that you don't think I should tell them.

 

 

3.     Your statement: Karen Mains . . . who sits on your RENOVARE Board. The facts: Karen Mains is not nor ever has been a member of our governing body, the Board of Trustees. She was on a Board of Reference along with many other Christian leaders who agreed to say a good word for RENOVARE if asked. At no time did the Board of Reference have any governance duties or responsibilities. This is another factual error promulgated by Al Dager in MEDIA SPOTLIGHT.

 

RESPONSE:

 

I never stated that Karen Mains sat on your Board of Trustees. I simply said "Board." But, as in the case of my response above about William L. Vaswig, regardless of which type of Board Karen Mains sits on at Renovare, this nevertheless gives a clear unimpeachable impression that she is identified with Renovare; likewise Renovare with Karen Mains. In both cases (Karen Mains and William L. Vaswig) you are now giving the distinct impression of trying to distance yourselves from each of them. Why would you do that? But it did not surprise me at all to see Karen Mains name on your board, as her own teaching is replete with ideas drawn in parallel to Richard Foster's teachings.

 

Once again you are using ad hominem adjectives to describe Al Dager while you simultaneously proclaim Matthew 18 and it is OK for you to talk about Lighthouse Trails. There is a word for this in Scripture. I will let you say it.

 

Other factual errors that have proliferated on numerous web sites:

 

RESPONSE:

 

If as you state to me, there are particularly substantial errors.... versus splitting hairs...wherein the claimed teachings of Richard Foster, are, not in fact, I am very glad to know this!

 

4.     Richard Foster is a psychologist. The fact: He holds a doctorate of pastoral theology.

 

RESPONSE:

 

If a person with a Doctorate in Pastoral Theology invokes unbiblical psychology to counsel a Christian, this is a worse indictment. Richard Foster praises psychology. Are you trying to distance yourself from psychology? If so, then why do you promote Dr. Siang-Yang Tan, Professor of Psychology at Fuller Theological Seminary as a speaker for Renovare, as well as his books on your website? If you are not praising psychology then why does the Renovare website promote the occultic pagan rooted Enneagram Personality Profile* on Renovare website? One can get a degree in Science to learn what the Theory of Evolution teaches, but it is quite another thing to go out and then recruit adherants to Evolution. True believers should be using the knowledge they've acquired to expose Darwin and Jung, not promote them.

 

"It would be better that a millstone were tied around his neck and he be tossed into the deepest ocean" than to stumble the least one of these my children..." e.g., with occultic and antichrist teachers such as Carl Jung. The guilt remains whether or not Richard Foster is technically a licensed psychologist**, or merely uses psychology while pastoring or counseling people with psychology, as these counselees have put their trust in a man (Richard Foster) whom they think to be a pastor. A pastor quoting Carl Jung in his counseling? That is even more frightening, to say nothing of being an abomination to the Lord Himself!! For truly, what fellowship does light have with darkness, or the cup of the Lord with Belial? And if there was every a person who walked in darkness and was demon-possessed, it was Carl Jung!

 

*ENNEAGRAM PERSONALITY PROFILE:

 

SOURCE: Robert Innes, Personality Indicators and The Spiritual Life, Grove Books Ltd., Cambridge, 1996, p.3; The Ennegram is significantly occultic in nature and origin, coming from Sufi, numerology, and Africa New-Age sources. George Gurideff, Oscar Ichazo of Esalen Institute, and Claudio Naranjo are the prominent New Agers who have popularized it, and then introduced it, through Fr. Bob Oschs SJ, into the Christian Church. For more information, I recommend Robert Innes' booklet and Mitchell Pacwa SJ article's "Tell Me Who I Am, O Ennegram" Christian Research Journal, Fall 1991, pp. 14ff.

 

If there is any doubt that Enneagram Personality Profile, or Meyers-Briggs Temperament Sorter (Carl Jung) is unbiblical and pagan-based, I invite you to read the following documents:

 

http://www3.bc.sympatico.ca/st_simons/arm03.htm

 

&

http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Psychology/temper.htm

 

 

 

 

**PSYCHOLOGY VS. THE BIBLE:

 

Psychology counsels no fear of the Lord at anytime in any of its therapies, let alone at the beginning. So there is no wisdom in it. The Bible teaches that there is body, soul, and spirit; psychology says there is only the body and the soul. The Bible teaches us that it is Holy Spirit that will lead us in all truth and that it is sharper than a two-edged sword, dividing even the soul from spirit. Psychology doesn't even believe in the Holy Spirit. The Bible teaches us about our eternal destiny. Psychology offers no hope for eternity. The Bible teaches us to lay up for our selves treasures in heaven. Psychology offers no concept of heaven to lay up your treasures for. The Bible says seek ye first the kingdom of God and all these things (our needs) will be added unto us. Psychology doesn't seek first the Kingdom of God, in fact it never seeks the Kingdom of God. The Bible teaches that our help comes from the Lord. Psychology tells us our help comes from one or more of unproven theories and tens of thousands of psychotherapists whose ideas were drawn from paganism, divination, astrology, humanism, and evolution. The Bible teaches that being lovers of selves is mankind's problem. Psychology teaches that being lovers of selves is the solution. Bible teaches that we can come freely to drink the waters of life. Psychology charges for it. The Bible offers the opportunity of becoming a new man in Christ. Psychology offers an improved or even damaged version of the old man. The Bible teaches that our strength is perfected in weakness and that in suffering, sin loses its power. Psychology teaches us how to balance our strengths and weaknesses with personality profiles derived from paganism and divination. The Bible esteems the contrite and broken spirit. Psychology esteems self-esteem. The Bible teaches us to rejoice in the suffering or being persecuted with Christ to produce character and overcome the world. Psychology has no interest in Christ's suffering, our suffering with Christ, or sees any redemptive value in his shed blood. The Bible teaches that Jesus Christ believed in demon possession and delivered those possessed. Psychology teaches that there is no such thing as demon possession...so there is nothing to be delivered from. Psychology does not believe we are in a spiritual war, because it does not believe there is any such thing as Satan or his demons. The Bible tells us that we war against principalities in heavenly places. The Bible tells us how to be blessed in the Beatitudes. Psychology doesn't even comprehend blessing, so it can not offer anyone a blessing because it omits the person required to administer these blessings, that is Jesus Christ. The Bible tells us we can't produce the fruit of the spirit which is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control without abiding in the vine which is Jesus Christ himself. Psychology attempts to bear this fruit by abiding in the teaching of such founders as Carl Jung and Sigmund Freud who opposed Christianity!

 

 

 

5.     He is a disciple of Thomas Merton (Lighthouse Trails). First, to be a disciple of a person, one has to be with that person while they are alive and learn from them. Historically, numerous people have had disciples--Socrates, Jesus, Calvin, Freud--but always during their lifetime while they were able to teach their disciples face-to-face. Merton died when Foster was a teenager. This is the first time I have ever heard of one person being described as a disciple of another when all they do is quote from a book.

 

RESPONSE:

 

First of all you don't have the definition of "disciple" right in English. Check Webster's Dictionary. But equally important is what the word disciple is in Greek (that is the context of disciples of Jesus), from which the word was translated.

 

The teacher does NOT have to be alive and the student does not need to have known the teacher in person.  In fact, Jesus had died already (though he rose again in a glorified body) when he gave the Great Commission of Matthew 28:19:

 

"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
NASB copyright 1995 Lockman Foundation

 

The Greek word for "disciple" used is:

 

matheteuo {math-ayt-yoo'-o} The KJV uses the word teach, but that is an understated word in English, though one certainly does teach one's disciples.  And note further the Disciples are not making the whole world disciples of themselves (the Disciples), but rather they are making the world disciples of Jesus Christ, a third party.

 

If Lynda Graybeal's definition is correct, and a true disciple must have have met Jesus in person and known him while he was still alive, then no one in most of Israel and everywhere outside of Judea, Galilee or Samaria could truly be called a disciple of Jesus Christ even during the Apostolic Age, let alone everyone who calls themselves a Christian today or the last 2,000 years. I am most curious where you found your definition.

 

Whether or not Richard Foster fashions himself as a disciple of Thomas Merton, it is not a matter of a single quote but many. Also, Richard Foster recommends several of Thomas Merton's books in his Celebration of Discipline book. Wouldn't this demonstrate that a fair interpretation by any reader would be that Richard Foster is a follower of Thomas Merton? Even if there was only one quote such as, "Well, Thomas Merton tried to awaken God's people," that single quote should be sufficient for us to take warning. Here is another quote in which Richard Foster embraces Thomas Merton's teaching:

 

On Thomas Merton's writings: "This brief book (What is Contemplation?) is an excellent introduction to contemplative prayer for everyone." (Source: Richard Foster, Spiritual Classics, p. 21)

 

Why would you be so sensitive about calling Richard Foster a disciple of Thomas Merton? Since Richard Foster raves about Merton with thirteen quotes in his book, why would he not be proud to be identified with Merton? But it is not just Thomas Merton, but all of the people Foster quotes or mimics, including Thomas Keating and Carl Jung, who share the same or similar false teachings, that magnifies Richard Foster's culpability and reasonable perception by the reader or hearer that he is a disciple of Thomas Merton. In and of itself it is not even wrong to quote a false teacher and properly cite them. It is not the use of quotations that is the problem, whether by Richard Foster or others. Rather, the problem lies in the inherent promotion...by using these quotations...of false teaching, ideas and techniques. In fact, one could even quote Hitler or document some good things he did, such as petting his dog, or requesting that a "people's car" be invented! But such quotes would be extremely dangerous and misleading without simultaneously identifying him as the monster he was.

 

Quote from Susan Anderson regarding Richard Foster quoting Carl Jung:

 

"Well, hey, Richard Foster quoted Jung, so there must be something to Jung's writings, teachings, etc., that are of value to me, to the church."  Off they go, marching straight ahead to their nearest bookstore or library, to read Jung's writings, as their sinful human natures have now had their appetites whetted for Satan's lies.  And, of course, he is most obliging and will help them open those doors wide.

 

THAT'S the danger.  Among so many other dangers.  I know more Christians (so-called, anyway) who don't know which way is up, than I do Christians who can readily discern truth from error.  And I firmly believe that NO person, calling themselves by our Lord's Name, has any right...whatsoever...to use quotes from any unrighteous, ungodly source, in order to bolster God's Word, Christ's teachings, or any part of Scripture.

 

GOD'S WORD DOESN'T NEED TO BE BOLSTERED BY ANYTHING JUNG HAD TO SAY." SOURCE: Susan Anderson September 25, 2003 Email to James Sundquist

 

I don't know who the Morrison you quote (op. cit., p 432) is but can guarantee you he has never contacted Richard Foster to see if what he says and/or writes about Richard is accurate.

 

RESPONSE:

 

I am happy to supply you with the source:

 

Alan Morrison is a foremost Biblical Scholar in the United Kingdom. Here is his website and one of his many articles exposing Richard Foster and teachers like him: The Sorcerer's Apprentice Website: http://www.diakrisis.org

 

Your statement about Alan Morrison not contacting Richard Foster to determine whether what he wrote (published) or said is accurate is nothing short of astonishing to me! Short of plaigerizing, imagine having millions of readers of various books having to contact the writer to see if he wrote what he wrote. This is absurd. You are not supposed to have to contact the author, that is why they published it. How are we to ever know what he really meant? Does Richard Foster know the contents of the emails you are sending to me and other people?

 

 

ERRORS IN LOGIC (commonly know as fallacies in logic or logical fallacies).

 

RESPONSE:

 

I am not sure how far along I can go with you on this. Aristotle is considered the Father of Logic, and he had a worldview completely antithetical to Biblical Christianity, as did the rest of the Greek philosophers. Scriptures tell us these are those whom the Apostle Paul opposed and tore his clothes over people following after these philosophers/

 

1. Guilt by association. To say that a person ascribes to everything that the person being quoted believes is guilt by association. A particular quote is used because the writer believes that the point that the person makes is valid in the context of a proposition. And a quote always has to be read in the context of the proposition or argument.

 

RESPONSE:

 

You appear to be appealing to a hermeneutic principle rather than a logic principle "a text out of context is a pretext." Of course I agree with this hermeneutic principle.

 

For example, the entire paragraph that contains one of the Jung quotes you cite reads: "In contemporary society our Adversary majors in three things: noise, hurry, and crowds. If he can keep us engaged in 'muchness' and 'manyness,' he will rest satisfied. Psychiatrist C. G. Jung once remarked, 'Hurry is not of the Devil; it is the Devil'" (CELEBRATION OF DISCIPLINE, 1st edition, p. 13). To say that Richard ascribes to everything that Carl Jung believed or taught just because Foster quotes him is ridiculous.

 

RESPONSE:

 

Where did I ever state or imply that Richard Foster ascribes to everything Carl Jung believed or taught? Where did anyone say this? Please cite this for me. One does not need to ascribe to everything a false teacher teaches, only one thing...a little leaven leaveneth the ENTIRE lump, not part of it! Secondly, the quote you supply (where Foster quotes Jung) is in itself Biblically (Doctrinally) unsound. In short, even this quote is a false teaching. Hurry is not the Devil. The Devil is the fallen Archangel Lucifer, who tempted Jesus Christ. Once again, it is astonishing to me once again that you or Richard Foster, who claims to be a Christian would believe this! And because Richard Foster believes this and teaches it by quoting Jung, many more continue to be led astray into unblical teachings.

 

Consequently, there is a point where you and Richard Foster do become guilty by association.

 

"Bad company corrupts good morals" I Corinthians 15:33

 

Was Paul addressing only the Corinthians? Was the intended audience only the First Century, or does this apply to us today too? The Biblical term "morals" refers to both physical and spiritual practices, as the Book of Proverbs and the Whore of Babylon confirms in both the Old and New Testaments.

 

 

Quoting from numerous sources to support a position has a long academic history. In The City of God Augustine quotes Cicero, Plato, Marcus Varro Apuleius, and others. John Calvin quotes a wide range of people including Cicero, Homer, Herodotus, Ovid, Plutarch, Pliny, and Seneca in his Institutes of the Christian Religion.  Even the Apostle Paul quotes a pagan Greek poet to make a point (Acts 17:28)! 

 

RESPONSE:

 

And what exactly was the Apostle Paul's point in quoting a pagan Greek poet? Was it to applaud them and affirm them to continue in idolotry? Was it to tell them they could integrate their wonderful philosophy with Christ? Or, was it not in order to evangelize his audience and convert them from their pagan Greek philosophies to Christ alone? Obviously, that was Paul's reason. And even a casual reading of the Book of Acts would reveal this to you! None of the men you name above could even contribute one thing to the sanctification of a Christian for the perfecting of the saints. The Word of God is clear when it says only the Word of God can do that!

 

I understand that you also have been the victim of guilt by association when your music CDs were distributed and sold in New Age bookstores. I quote from one of your letters to Mary Fairchild, "You would not accuse Ken Ham of being in an unholy alliance with the New Age because New Age outlets sell Ken Ham books. I know I certainly would not! So why do you accuse me of being a New Ager for doing precisely the same thing?"

 

RESPONSE:

 

None of my lyrics are New Age, but either direct Scripture and/or poems which reflect straight Biblical teachings...not New Age Ideas... and they certainly were not conceived by Eastern Meditation. Richard Foster's are! Paul was not "associating" with the Greeks when preaching in the Forum, HE WAS OPPOSING THEM! (See above my commentary on William L. Vaswig and Karen Mains.)

 

And Richard Foster's teachings are not merely placed on the shelves next to New Age books, but rather they are contained and promoted within his books.

 

 

2. Argument from silence. Your statement that Jesus didn't teach us to appeal to the imagination and senses is a classic example of an argument from silence and is very weak. Let me ask you a few questions about the way Jesus taught. What do you think Jesus is appealing to when he draws word pictures in parables? Our senses? No, Jesus uses the age-old rhetorical device of parables over and over and over in which word pictures dominate. Parables force the hearers to use their imaginations to make sense of the story. For example, who can understand the parable of the sower and the seed if they can't see it in their imaginations? Or the parable of the woman searching for the lost coin? I could cite as many examples of Jesus' appeal to the imagination as there are parables in the New Testament.

 

RESPONSE:

 

Your contention that my arguing from Scripture regarding what it says about imagination is very dangerous waters for you to be treading. What Scripture says about imagination is what Scripture says about imagination! This is not an argument from silence if the Scripture is not silent on the matter, because the Scriptures are not silent on the matter. Besides this, if you concede Scripture is silent on the matter of imagination, then why do you give all of the Scriptural examples of the absence of silence regarding imagination? I hope you did not get the impression that I think that ALL imagination is evil....though at the time of Noah's Flood, EVERY imagination of their heart was only evil continually.

 

If you re-read all of the Scriptures that I sent to you, you will see that I am speaking about vain imaginations or dreams or visions that promote or teach ideas strictly forbidden in the Bible. Example of such are: divination, astrology, sorcery, necromancy, pagan ideas, conjuring up another Jesus, magic arts, imagining evolution. ALL of which Carl Jung promoted, and he himself was demon-possessed! And yet, this is the very man whose ideas, practices and teachings Richard Foster promotes IN OUR CHURCHES. Additionally, Richard Foster promotes Eastern Mysticism Meditation which a host of people Richard Foster quotes, practice, and which Richard Foster practices and promotes. Even if he were not a direct disciple of any one of the men he quotes, he is a desciple of their very same practices!

 

So, my answer to you is really quite simple. As true believers...as Christian... we are forbidden from even touching these teachings, let alone practicing or promoting them in any form of imagination that invokes any of the practices or techniques that the Bible condemns, whether they be Ouija Boards, crystal balls, palm reading, astrological chart reading, pagan based personality profiling, or Eastern Meditation, etc..

 

With regard to Parables to mention, are you aware that one of the central themes in Christ's parables is God's Judgment? Does Comtemplative Prayer, as offered in your Spiritual Formation Classes or Tilden Edward's Shalem Institute where William Vaswig that you tout on your website was trained, warn about the Judgment of God coming upon the earth?

 

About Jesus' appealing to the senses, why do you think Jesus used unleavened bread and wine at The Last Supper? To appeal to our imaginations? No, it was an act rooted in the body's senses--hearing, smell, touch, taste, and sight--as were the many times he laid hands on people to heal them, put mud on the blind man's eyes, etc.. There are many other examples: "salt of the earth" appeals to taste, "light of the world" appeals to sight, "unleavened bread" appeals to taste, Thomas touching Jesus' wounds appeals to touch, and so on. If you deny that Jesus taught by appealing to the imagination and senses, then you discard most of the four Gospels, keeping only his replies to the questions of the Pharisees and the historical narratives. As a musician, how do you teach a person to play the guitar? By describing in words how to strum the guitar and wrap his fingers around the neck and move his fingers up and down the fret while pressing on the strings? Or by having the student feel, see, and hear the instrument as he is learning to play it? Jesus taught, and continues to teach through the biblical accounts and his Spirit, the same way.

 

RESPONSE:

 

For you to suggest or imply that Christ's mission or teaching was to appeal to all of the human senses and imagination, so as to maximize pleasure and minimize pain, meet all of the felt needs of the people, is to deny not just the Four Gospels but the entire New Testament, as well the Book of Job, and further denies the Apostle Paul's own words (if you are right) to eat drink and be merry, for tomorrow we die (assuming you are right that Christ was appealing to and satisfying our senses). God forbid! Jesus Christ's own words regarding seeing does not sound anything like what you have in mind for the senses:

 

"For all that [is] in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world." I John 2:16

 

Regarding your reference to the Lord healing the man's blindness, would you like to talk about "context" one more time? The main thrust of that passage was to reveal that it was those who think they can see that are the ones who are really blind. But seeing the truth is the opposite of what Eastern mediation will bring you, which is spiritual blindness!

 

Your version of the Gospel (which is really "another gospel" and "another Jesus") does violence to the Book of James, Hebrews 11:36-38, by insulting every present and past persecuted and martyred saint, of whom this world was not worthy. Your touchy feely gospel is exactly what doubting Thomas required vs. Christ blessing those who had faith who NEVER saw, felt, tasted, smelled, or had their senses appealed to. Yes they did hear, but that is what the Scripture teaches is necessary for conversion (faith cometh by hearing). But your gospel is the tickling of the ears kind of hearing by those with itchy ears, and this all promotes mysticism, gnosticism, and the occult ideas of Carl Jung that Second Timothy warns against.

 

And by the way, unleavened bread was not used to enhance taste. (If anything it did not taste as good.) The use of unleavened bread was to remind them of the slavery they came out of in Egypt. Even the Manna in the Wilderness did not have the taste the Israelites were accustomed to in Egypt. As you may recall, this was one of the reasons they murmured in the Wilderness, and God judged them for murmuring and complaining.

 

No, the gospel you are promoting just another spin on the appeal of the Church Growth Movement, which also promotes Richard Foster, as does Rick Warren via his toolbox to pastors.

 

3.     Appeal to Emotion. This logical fallacy masks many spurious arguments. We appeal to a person's emotions and then statements that do not stand tests of logic, accuracy, and truthfulness slip by unnoticed. This is frequently done when the question being debated is very emotional or elicits strong emotions, such as the debate over abortion or "keeping the faith pure".

 

RESPONSE:

 

Where did I appeal to emotion to you? Where did you get that idea? My appeals are all based on reasoning from Scripture. You are not suggesting that abortion is an option for a Christian are you? We test everything with Scripture...not emotion...including spirits such as "Philemon" of which Carl Jung was possessed!

4.     False Disjunction, e.g. the only kind of "centering down" is New Age "centering down". This ignores the rich history of centering down in the Church, and the fact that practices from many religions including centering down have been co-opted by the New Age movement. In conjunction with this, one huge mistake many people make is to take our present knowledge of the New Age movement and read it into books and teachings prior to its inception. In doing this, they can declare that people who lived decades, and sometimes centuries ago, taught New Age beliefs.

 

RESPONSE:

 

Once again I do not recall ever saying that all centering down is "New Age" centering down. I can center down to do my homework, center down to practice my guitar. I can say that Christ is the center of my life, so thinking about him and praying to him could be argued to mean that I am centering down. Additionally, what other religions do with regard to centering down (as you stated above), is totally irrelevant to Christianity, regardless of whether or not the New Age Movement has co-opted this practice. As true believers we are do obey the Word of God only and not incorporate the beliefs and practices of all other religions, because they are not of God! Why Richard Foster's version is New Age is not a false disjunction is that he employs and prescribes identical techniques to what the New Age employs such as vain repetitions, Ashtanga Yoga, Kundalini, and Buddhist prayers at Quaker gatherings that I can document. In quote after quote, Richard Foster gives accolades to promoters and practioners of Eastern Mysticism and Meditation which mirror his own views. There is not even anything to mask what he is doing. Secondly, you are not even historically accurate. Though the New Age term itself might be recent, the beliefs and practices the term refers to, go back to the Garden of Eden. All New Age beliefs, each and every religion, have at their very foundations the lies of Satan, which are always, always, always to take away from the Deity of Christ and the Word of God. Their beliefs stem from the Fall of Adam, and later from the Tower of Babel, and Babylon. Even at the time of Christ, Jesus himself commanded us NOT to pray as the heathens do with vain repetitions (such as breath mantras). Here is the direct commandment of our Lord himself:

 

"But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen [do]: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking." Matthew 6:7 KJV

 

So if the Lord does not hear these kind of prayers, who are we really praying to? What possibly God ordained purpose could they have?

 

And yet what do we find Richard Foster recommending in his book Spiritual Classics? Richard Foster states:

 

"Practice lectio devina by taking a Bible text that you love, reading it over attentively, then entering into prayer through a single word or phrase." p.35 "Why does this little prayer of one syllable pierce the heavens?" p. 45 (Source: Richard Foster, Spiritual Classics, p. 35, p.45)

 

Jesus Christ said that if you want to be his disciple, you must obey him. So how is praying with vain repetitions and repeating a single word or phrase over and over obeying Christ, when he gave specific instructions which forbade it?

 

Your version of centering down and imagination does not even fit the Biblical meaning of meditation, but is, in fact, the opposite. Richard Foster's idea of meditation is to imagine the loins of your mind to be let down and relaxed that anything might enter. Here is the proof:

 

Richard Foster in his book, Prayer: Finding the Heart's True Home, speaks of the practice of "breath prayer," in which a Christian-sounding word or phrase is repeated over and over again like a mantra. Foster wrote that "Christian meditation is an attempt to empty the mind in order to fill it" (Ray Yungen, Time of Departing, Lighthouse Trails Publishing, 2002, pg. 72). But fill it with what? This "breath prayer" idea has gained popularity in charismatic circles that frequently sing of "breathing in Jesus" or variations thereof. (SOURCE: Jacki Alnor, Christian Sentinel, April 2003. Richard Foster quote taken from Richard Foster, Celebration of Discipline, Harper & Row Pub., San Francisco, CA 1978, p. 15.)

 

This is precisely the technique that lets demons enter a person. But we are to be circumspect which is what a night watchman is, as this literally means having eyes all around our head to guard against imaginations and seducing spirits that would love to enter us.

 

The Apostle Paul commands us to "gird up the loins of our minds," not let them down, not empty our minds.

 

We are to put on the helmet of salvation to protect our minds, as well as the shield of faith that we might ward off the fiery darts of the enemy from penetrating that part of our armor. One girds up the loins of their mind for war, as that is precisely what we are in...a spiritual war. Any good soldier girds up his or her mind when he or she stands guard on a night watch. I know this first hand because I used to stand guard in four-hour shifts at night over missile batteries in the U.S. Army in West Germany. Emptying your mind and/or falling a sleep on guard duty would get you court-marshalled. You had to be vigilant and constantly alert, i.e., we are to have the loins of your mind girded up...not let down! Succinctly, we are to have the mind of Christ....not mindlessness!

 

This is perfectly consistent with what the Apostle Paul further tells us:

 

"Be sober and be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour" I Peter 5:8

 

How can a Christian be ever vigilant and sober within his mind, if he is spending a lot of time emptying his mind by practicing any type of meditation which is the direct opposite of Biblical meditation?

 

For one of the very best Scripture passages on the context and real meaning of what the Bible teaches about "meditation," read the entirety of Psalm 119, where you will find the word "meditate" time and time again.

 

You want context? The entire passage uses the word "meditate" to describe the author's intent to meditate on the statutes, laws, and decrees of the Lord, that the author might not sin against God. Now traditionally, the "centering down" form of meditation promoted by Richard Foster involves CLOSING the eyes. Well let's see what the writer in Psalm 119 thinks about that. In Psalm 119:148 we read:

 

"My eyes stay open through the watches of the night, that I may meditate on your promises." Psalm 119:148 NIV

 

When Jesus was praying in the Garden of Gethsemane, he rebuked his Disciples for NOT keeping their eyes open, for he wanted them to WATCH and PRAY (Mark 14:38) WITH HIM. Let's take an even closer look at what Jesus had in mind in terms of how he prayed (the highest form of meditation which is to "watch" and "pray") in the Garden of Gethsemane. Jesus Christ's idea of how to pray was to resist temptation to the sweating of drops of blood. No human besides Christ has ever accomplished this feat. Nevertheless, Christ our Lord does set an example of what should be taking place during our praying. This kind of praying has nothing in common with techniques or purpose of praying for Eastern Meditation or any other religion. Christ's method of praying has nothing in common with Richard Foster's revised definition of meditation or "centering down." Jesus Christ gave even more instructions when his disciples asked him how to pray. The Lord gives them (and us) instructions on how to pray when he gives us the Lords' Prayer. Once again, he gives us no instructions which resemble "centering down" meditation. This prayer is a petition and requires the mind to be fully engaged, not unplugged. Finally, it tells us to appeal to the Lord to protect us from the Evil One (i.e., Satan). Eastern Meditation REMOVES the protection to let the Evil One IN to our minds.

 

Just prior to this, Jesus had lifted up his OPEN eyes to the Heavens to pray...not close them when he raised Lazarus.

 

"Then they took away the stone [from the place] where the dead was laid. And Jesus lifted up [his] eyes, and said, Father, I thank thee that thou hast heard me." John 11:41 KJV

 

So we don't even see Jesus praying or instructing us how to pray or meditate like anything even resembling Eastern Meditation or Richard Foster's version of meditation.

 

Again the Apostle Paul says:

 

"Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things [are] honest, whatsoever things [are] just, whatsoever things [are] pure, whatsoever things [are] lovely, whatsoever things [are] of good report; if [there be] any virtue, and if [there be] any praise, think on these things." Philippians 4:8 KVJ

 

With the mind of Christ, this is the kind of thinking or meditation we should be practicing. What is pure or commendable about Carl Jung's practice of divination or the complete balance of his theory of the subconscious, which he believed came from what we possessed in our subconscious as animals before we became human (thus totally denying the creation of man directly from the dust by a Sovereign Creator) ?

 

What is of good report of Carl Jung?

 

What is noble about his personality theory, which he also drew from paganism and a spirit-guide that possessed him? Are not these things clearly abhorred by both Jesus Christ and the Apostle Paul? We are to flee these things, not embrace, promote them and feed them to God's children.

 

You want to call your kind of meditation Biblical. But I challenge you to go through the entire Old and New Testaments and do a word search for the word "meditate" or "meditation", and look it up in the Hebrew and the Greek (as you did with the word "you" in the New Testament). You will not find one instance or precedent for the word meaning anything close to your revisionist definition. You will not find a precedent for it. You will not find an example of Jesus Christ or any of the Apostles practicing it or recommending it. But you will find it practiced and promoted in Eastern Meditation and the New Age Movement.

 

Finally, the New Age Movement did not borrow or hijack centering down from Christianity. Though not under the same name, the practice is as ancient as Babylon and the Tower of Babel. And the Tower of Babel was constructed because of the same lie Satan used in the Garden of Eden, "You shall be as God."

 

When you say "church" you mean Roman Catholicism and the Carmelite Order traditions. But Roman Catholicism is both pagan and apostate. Indeed, your version of centering down indeed matastesized into the Church and spread spiritual death into the Church, just as various forms of cancer metastasize in the organs of the human body, eventually causing physical death. Your form of "centering down" is also rooted in the Church's first and tragically on-going heresy, Gnosticism.

 

Despite what you believe and stated above, centering down has no rich history or even existence in the TRUE CHURCH. For you to claim that New Age beliefs are only recent, reveals a tragic lack of knowledge of both history and Scripture. As the prophet Hosea declares:

 

"My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children." Hosea 4:6 KJV

 

 

5.     General Assumption. To say that Richard Foster admires Thomas Merton because he quotes him is an assumption you have drawn, not a verifiable fact.

 

RESPONSE:

 

It is absolutely astounding to me that you would make this statement with all of the Merton quotes Richard Foster has in his book. One does not have to assume what a person clearly states and publishes. Here is a quote from Richard Foster, quoting Thomas Merton:

 

"...offers you an understanding and light which are like nothing ever found in books or heard in sermons"

 

Richard Foster further says of Thomas Merton:

 

"Thomas Merton has perhaps done more than any other twentieth-century figure to make the life of prayer widely known and understood." Foster considers Merton's book, Contemplative Prayer, "a must book". He also states, "Merton continues to inspired countless men and women," and credits his books as being filled with priceless wisdom for all Christian who long to go deeper in the spiritual life." SOURCE: A TIME OF DEPARTING, Ray Yungen, Trailhouse Trails Publishing Company, 2002. These quotes were drawn from Richard Foster's books: Devotional Classics and Meditative Prayer.

 

And this is not admiring Thomas Merton? If note, I would surely be curious to know what a good example would be, by your own definition! If this is not enough, Richard Foster lavishes praise on a host of other authors and teachers who share very similar views to Thomas Merton. Even if Richard Foster does not technically use the word "admire" then proceeds to lace his commentary with one complement after another, what reader could come away with any other conclusion? What your comment clearly shows me is that you are doing nothing more than parsing at words and straining at gnats, while you swallow the camel of ideas that clearly oppose Biblical Christianity. Richard Foster clearly shows support for Thomas Merton, William L. Vaswig and Karen Mains, in spite of your trying to distance yourself from them.

 

 

THEOLOGICAL ISSUE

 

1. By citing all of the biblical verses that connect the imagination with evil, are you saying that the imagination that you use in composing and arranging music is evil? You, along with every other person in the arts uses the imagination in the creation of their pieces whether sculpture, music, paintings, poems, and more. Inventors use their imaginations to create new products. Seamstresses use their imagination to buy material for a new garment. Children use their imaginations during play. As you have tried to explain, the Bible is key to understanding the influence of evil upon the imagination. The Old Testament does connect the imagination with evil, but the verses you cite are descriptive of people with unregenerated imaginations. From the Fall until Jesus' birth, life, death, and resurrection through today, evil imaginations--along with evil hearts and evil actions--describe the predicament of the human race. But Jesus Christ provides a way out of the predicament. Think with me a little. What does Jesus Christ redeem when we accept him as Savior? Just our spirits? Our souls? Our minds with its imaginations?

 

RESPONSE:

 

I address the question of imagination in earlier paragraphs. Regarding the Old Testament, being unregenerated was not describing some people but everyone who did not fear the Lord (which was most people). And except for Noah and his family, it was everyone who drowned in the Flood. But just because we have regenerated minds and imaginations does not give us license to use our imaginations to practice the very things we practiced with unregenerated minds, i.e., eastern meditation, vain repetition chants or mantras, your meaning of centering, etc.; or promote teachers who do practice these magic arts, such as Carl Jung and many others. If you want to know what we are to practice, then read what the Bible says about sanctification and Sound Doctrine and the narratives of how they REALLY meditated! And by the way, the New Testament connects imagination to evil too (see the verses I already sent you), such as the verse:

 

"(For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;) Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;" 2 Corinthians 10:4-5,

 

Our bodies? This is the message of the birth, life, death, and resurrection of the fully human Jesus Christ described in the New Testament: that he bought and paid for our whole beings--hearts, minds, bodies, souls, and spirits. Of course, a Christian's mind and imagination can be used to ill purposes. The verse you quote, 2 Corinthians 10:5, makes this very point. As regenerated humans (Christians) we are to bring every THOUGHT into obedience to Christ. This would be impossible if our minds with its imaginations were excluded from the process of redemption and sanctification. Taken to its logical conclusion, to say that all imagination is evil is to declare your own musical compositions evil.

 

RESPONSE:

 

If as you properly quote that we are to bring every thought into the obedience of Christ, then what place does DISOBEYING Christ by engaging in magic arts or quoting and promoting them that do?

 

 

EXEGETICAL ISSUES

 

1.     Quoting out of context. This is a common mistake made by people trying to support their position. When reading Scripture we must first determine several things: its historical context (when was it written?), its cultural context (to whom was it written?), its redemptive context (at what stage in revelation was this written?), its author (who wrote it?), its purpose (why was it written?), its literary context (what type of literature is this?), its provenance (where was it written?) to name a few. Once we answer these questions, we can start to understand particular verses or sections of Scripture. And I say "start" because as citizens of the 21st century we can never fully understand the entire context of Scripture written by the authors of the New Testament, much less that written by Moses and David!

 

RESPONSE:

 

Can't be understood huh? Is that what the Apostle Paul meant when he said:

 

"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:" Romans 1:20

 

Is that what the Apostle Paul meant when he said:

 

"For we do not write you anything you can not read or understand" 2 Corinthians 2:13 NIV

 

As that what the Apostle John meant when he said:

 

"My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:" I John 2:1

 

Now if they could not "fully understand the entire context" of what John was saying, how would they understand how NOT to sin? Jesus Christ and the Apostle spend extensive discourse in warning about deception and false teaching. And with reference to the Last Days prophecies, they devote MORE text to deception (in the Church). If the Word is not clear or easily understood, how would we know how and when we are deceived?

 

We must always remember that God's revelation of his purposes in history is "progressive". In other words, God reveals his plan for the redemption of humanity after the Fall a little bit at a time: through the life of Abraham and Sarah and their family, the Law, the nation of Israel, and so on. Determining the context of Scripture helps us avoid applying those Scriptures to our lives that aren't meant for us.

 

RESPONSE:

 

Are you suggesting that we don't need to flee from divination, astrology, paganism, necromancy, sorcery, mindless vain repetition prayers, centering down, magic arts just as much today and repent from practicing them just as much as in the time the Scriptures are recorded? That there are changes in the faith once and for all delivered to the Apostles that we are to no longer contend for? Paul warned the First Century Church about teaching things that ought not to be taught in his First Letter to Timothy then tells us the Second Letter to Timothy these very same doctrines of demons and seducing spirits, alive and well in the First Century, would visit us again in the Last Days. Both Isaiah and the Apostle Paul warn us that deception and wickedness would wax worse and worse. These warnings are clearly just as much for us today as believers. Finally, if you are so wary about what Scriptures say regarding false teaching and church discipline apply to us today, what hermeutical principles that you list did you use to determine that your version of meditation is even for today?

 

For example, who among Christians would contend that we need to keep all of the Levitical laws and traditions? No one. They weren't written for that purpose. They were addressed to a particular people for a particular purpose in a particular time. As Christians we are to view the Mosaic Law as fulfilled in Jesus Christ and, as Paul writes to the church in Galatia, as "our tutor to lead us to Christ" (Gal. 3:24).

 

RESPONSE:

 

While there are some Christians today who attempt to keep Levitical laws and traditions (such as Seventh Day Adventists and some sects of Messianic Fellowships), we know that we are free from the legality of the Mosaic Law because of Christ's fulfillment. For that matter it was impossible to keep all the laws....no one ever did that...even at the time of the Levitical Priesthood. As you stated, the Scriptures clearly teach that Christ is the fulfillment of the Mosaic Law. However, there is nowhere in Scripture that we are given permission, however, to practice the meditative techniques that Richard Foster is promoting. "Days and diets" are negotiable, but doctrine and morals are essentials which do not have an expiration date.

 

It is extremely ironic that you would quote Galatians in which Paul tells the Galatian Church that if anyone preach another gospel than what he first preached let him be eternally damned. Or are you going to tell me that this letter was intended only for the Galatians and only for the First Century, or to use your words: "for a particular purpose in a particular time?" No, once we are led to Christ, we cannot go back to the same practices we were delivered from. The same practices of magic arts that Jesus Christ himself declares in Revelation that no one who practices them will have a place inside of the New Jerusalem. If the magic arts are condemned in the First Century, and they are condemned up to the Last Days, how are they then acceptable practices in between, during the last two thousand years? Paul also said that his letters should be read to the other churches. So I guess that would mean they apply to them too!

 

How useful is your long list of hermeneutical questions, if in the end in your words: "as citizens of the 21st century we can never fully understand the context of Scripture?" For the answers are fundamentally unknowable according to your argument. Yet you promote the idea that "meditation" is not only acceptable in the 21st Century, it is valuable to know God better. How did you determine that is for the 21st Century, for even after employing your schematic of hermeneutics, we are still not able to fully understand the context? How do you know, as you put it, that meditation is not just for a certain time and place in history? Well of course meditation is also for today, but that is Biblical meditation, not Eastern meditation.

 

Now why didn't you apply your hermeneutics principles to the word "meditate" to find out what it really meant and its context throughout the Bible, before you use your imagination to interpret what the word means? Or worse, revise the meaning to allow you to imagine things for which there is no Biblical precedent or injunction to do so! You tout Biblical hermeneutics yet use revisionist exegesis and isagesis to force meaning into and out of the word that it NEVER possessed. You want me to use hermeneutics, something you think I fail to use properly or even understand? Well here is what the Contemplative Prayer Movement, Mysticism, and Gnosticism has done to the word meditate. This principle in hermeneutics is called "unwarranted expansion of a grammatical field". Or to put in in laymen's terms "using your imagination to invent a meaning and context of a word that is without justification." And here is another principle, or should I say actual Scripture that bears on this very subject:

 

"Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation. For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit. But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them bringing swift destruction on themselves. 2 Peter 1:20 2:1 NIV

 

By the way, Peter also warned, along with Jesus Christ, that the Last Days would be just like in the Days of Noah....same sins...same false teaching. Nothing new under the sun, as Solomon said!

 

 

 

 

2.     Proof Texting. This is another common mistake people make when trying to prove an argument from Scripture. I've already dealt with the fact that all except one of the verses you cite to prove that the imagination is evil are from the Old Testament and refer to the unregenerate person.

 

 

RESPONSE:

 

Well you repeat the same error....that evil imagination refers primarily to the Old Testament (see reference above which proves it is in the New Testament too!). The nature of man has not changed since the Fall of Adam. What are your saying? Even if there were only one Scripture in the New Testament in reference to imagination, that is all it takes to make it true. The word Trinity isn't even in there at all, but its concept is all through both Testaments and is a pillar of Orthodox Christianity!

 

About the false teaching verses, of course there are false teachers. But who is to ferret them out and reprove them? The individual? The pastor? The gathered congregation? The Church? Reading the verses that you copied leaves the impression that individuals are to find and expose false teachers, but it is very clear from Scripture that anyone who is preaching false doctrine or bringing disgrace to the gathered community is to be exposed and disciplined in the midst of the body of Christ.

 

RESPONSE:

 

The answer to who ferrets our false teachers? Every Christian! We forfeited the right to remain silent the day we became Christians. Now at some point it may be only the elders who have the judicial or employer authority to actually fire or excommunicate such a false teacher. But any Christian can and should endeavor to identify them....based on all of the Scriptures I cited and sent to you earlier.

 

All false teachers and false prophets need to be identified and opposed.  And I am sure that we both agree that no one is to bring an accusation against an elder without the testimony of two or more.  A host of discernment ministries around the world have already done this regarding Richard Foster (I will cite them at the end of this document). I also would like to submit that there are really four stages regarding "who" should do what regarding false teachers.  They are: 1. Identifying, 2. Labeling (marking)  3. Disciplining, and 4. Restoration (if possible).

 

 

 

 

 

 


Stage One: Identifying False Teachers

It is the responsibility of every Christian to identify false teaching and false prophecies.  Scriptural proof: Paul commending the Bereans, Paul's open door to every Christian in Galatians, Paul's commandment in Ephesians Chapter 5 to expose all deeds of darkness, Paul's commandment as to whom to not even allow in your door (this would have to be every Christian....at their homes....not at the church). Every Christian has this right and commandment even.  Reason: it is the heart of the Great Commission.  Any time you say that Jesus Christ is the only way to Salvation and Heaven you are simultaneously saying that anyone who teaches anything else is a false teacher.  Anytime you say that whoever does not believe in Jesus Christ is condemned to Eternal Hell and suffering.  So you are simultaneously saying that whoever does not teach that is a false teacher. Nothing hard about this, John 3:16-17 will tell you this. And if they deny that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh you are saying even more than that they are a false teacher, they are an antichrist, according to the Apostle John.  So the list just keeps getting longer as any Christian who can identify a teaching which does not line up with the Doctrine of the Apostles and the Faith Once and for all Delivered to the Saints. 


Stage Two: Labeling (Marking) False Teachers

Matthew 18 gives no restrictions among Christians as to who can label, no restrictions in Ephesians 5, no restrictions in testing the spirits.  And there are no restrictions on who can mark them that causing division. Now there is an added ability by those who have the Gift of Discerning of Spirits.  And there is added ability and authority for elders who need to be equipped to identify false teachers and prophets.  Paul's Second letter to the Thessalonians (everyone) speaks of not associating with any who do not obey the instructions in this letter....so any Christian can label such a person. Contending for the faith is for all believers.  Note in this verse where Paul is addressing the brethren (plural)....not just the elders...but the whole church....no community gathering is implied to be necessary:

 "Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.  For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple." (Rom 16:17-18)

A further note on labeling false teachers.  In many cases, we don't even have to investigate or get two or more witness because many of these false teachers are self-labeled.  Their own testimony and teaching is already public record, for all to read.  So it is not a matter of determining whether it is true or secret.  Their own testimony condemns themselves.  So it is only responsible for every Christian to declare and warn everyone about such teachers.  Now on the other hand if their false teaching is only suspected and not already proven by being in print, and is only  hearsay, a Christian who then labels that teacher as a false teacher (without proof) would be guilty of all sorts of sins: gossip, bearing false witness against a brother, slander, sowing strife among the brethren, etc.

 

Finally, and this is very important, there are false teachers who are clearly not Christians and there are those who either are Christians or profess that they are. If a pastor or teacher teaches false teaching, they are not immediately labelled or marked as false teachers....we all make mistakes. IT is only if they refuse correction, and ONLY after a second warning do you have the right to call them a false teacher. Peter promoted some false teachings, but would not be considered a false teacher because he repented. Richard Foster has been warned at least twice and still refuses to repent, so any Christian is perfectly within their rights to label or mark him as a false teacher and warn anyone considering his books or any church considering inviting him to speak. Here is the Biblical authority for you to take this action:

 

"A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself." Titus 3:10-11

 

Stage Three: Disciplining False Teachers

Now here is where I think WHO becomes very important.  Only the Elders in the Church really have the power to remove such a false teacher, or to at least silence him or her IN THAT PARTICULAR LOCAL CONGREGATION.  But in many cases, such a false teacher would have been in someone else's church.  It is rather difficult if not practically impossible to remove or silence such a teacher in another man's church.  But you can certainly warn your own congregation and other congregations.  In probably most cases false teachers lead congregations that have all already "drunk the coolaid" and would never oppose or remove their teacher.  They would only oppose all who would dare speak against him. The church really does not have a mechanism to discipline all of the false teacher authors in the marketplace.  But we all can speak out against them, write our own articles and books, support discernment ministries that do.  I reiterate and agree that as a whole, a lone voice can't speak out.  But if a priest falsely teaches a confessioner that it is good to have relations with the young altar boy, I hope this lone voice shouts it from the rooftops!  Sadly a host did not, for many years, so the problem became an epidemic.  The Bible is as much concerned about spiritual harlotry as it is literal harlotry.  If I were a murderer or rapist and thought I could get away with it simply by assuring that there never would be the testimony of two or more, to convict me, I would surely make sure there was never two or more witnesses every time I wanted to murder someone.  We have to be very careful with that Scripture.  Now, regarding the names I mentioned in my document as false teachers.   I can assure you that I am not a lone voice.  There are a great number of pastors and discernment ministries who have made the same discoveries about Richard Foster and many others like him.  But this is not rocket science.  Any Christian can get and read these false teacher's books, articles, hear and view their own tapes and then line up their teachings themselves with the Canon of Scripture.  It is a big difference when these teachers have published their material.  I don't need any governing body around to make a ruling to warn everyone about a person who teaches that the Trinity is Nine, such as what Benny Hinn taught.  And the fact is that Church Discipline is now almost extinct.  The churches that do have authority where the false teacher is a member rarely take any action, because they all believe the false teaching themselves.  So it is up to the rest of us to mark them.

Stage Four (Restoration) of False Teachers


Of course the desired goal is that the false teacher repent and be restored to the congregation, not necessarily the pulpit.  Elders can make this official.  But all of the church can love and encourage a repentant false teacher.  Now if such a false teacher is published, there would seem to be some need to make restitution or publish recantations to all they have caused to stumble.  The Book of Philemon is one of the best examples of restoration of a believer (Paul's plea for Onesimus).  But I can't think of one example in the Bible where a false teacher repented and was restored to the pulpit. The Apostle Peter would not qualify, for he never was removed from being an elder or Apostle. It never became necessary because he repented. Richard Foster has not..

A few more words on lone voice speaking out against spiritual or literal harlotry.  If you have a situation in a church that even the Apostle Paul encountered when he records: A few more words on lone voice speaking out against spiritual or literal harlotry.  If you have a situation in a church that even the Apostle Paul encountered when he records:

 

I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren? I Corinthians 6:5

 

In such a scenario, you may have only one lone voice who is wise and discerning.  Should this lone voice then remain silent because he is the only voice?  You may end up without even one wise among that local church.  But another church or another lone voice may exist who is wise and discerning.  Should that person speak out, even though he is the lone voice? When Jesus asked when he returns will he find faith on the earth, wouldn't this imply a great falling away to the point that in many cities and churches you may very well only have one lone voice, or have to look elsewhere for one.  Now of course it is much better if there is more than one voice and the testimony of two or more. But if there is not do we still remain silent?

Jesus instructs when a person sins, to go to that person in private first. Then, if there is still a problem, bring one or two other people to the table of discussion. If that doesn't solve the issue, then it is to be brought before the congregation (Matt. 18:15-17).

 

RESPONSE:

 

This is primarily referring to a private matter between two Christians, it is not PRIMARILY addressing false teaching, though I believe Matthew 18 should also be invoked early on before the person being confronted has had a chance to spread his false gospel or teaching. But if that has already happened, it is too late for Matthew 18, at least in the sense of two individual parties resolving the offense just between the two of them, very simply because it is no longer private. And even then, it is not as though you can settle the matter as though it were a property dispute. The teaching is either true or it is false! If you are interested in the view of virtual every Conservative Scholar on this text who invoke the principles of hermeneutics that you so devoutly espouse, they confirm this to be so. Now I am surprised you would invoke Matthew 18 to me, for this is exactly what I have done in approaching Richard Foster. So why am I not talking to Richard Foster? If Richard Foster believes this passage, why isn't he responding to my further concerns and emails regarding his teaching? Why are you declaring that Richard Foster refuses to respond to the letter from Ray Yungen, who very diplomatically appealed to you to repent of your teaching, so that they could both implement Matthew 18? How is Richard Foster able to go the altar to bring a sacrifice without first making things right with his brother Ray Yungen, according to Scripture??

 

The Epistles contain guidance on many issues that congregations face as a body, including blatant sin and teaching false doctrine, and how to deal with them. Most of the pastoral and general epistles were written to either the pastor of a congregation or a congregation. I have gone through many of them in the Greek to find out whether the "you" in the Pastoral Epistles or the number in nouns and verbs is singular or plural. In almost every instance, they are plural. The exceptions include instruction to a particular pastor on how to deal with a situation in a church or personal advice, e.g. when Paul tells Timothy to drink a little wine for his stomach! When read in the plural, these books take on a whole different life and it changes their perspectives, particularly on issues of practice and discipline (see 1 Corinthians 5:1-12 which is written in the plural.)

 

RESPONSE:

 

Of course there are a host of directions to you (plural) in Greek. But what did you expect Paul to do, name each person one by one and give him the exact same instructions? This would be absurd! No each person as part of the plural you were expected to also comply with Paul's instructions unless, specifically he was identifying one individual with an instruction.

 

As an example, there is a record of the Roman Catholic Pope kissing the Koran as a sign of ecumenism. Am I not to warn anyone that he is a false teacher until I go to him privately? Islam is responsible for more shed blood of the saints than any religion in history, rivaled only by Roman Catholicism, Islam's fellow daughter of Babylon. Are you suggesting that I must go through the Church Discipline procedure to silence the Pope? The Catholic Church would not even allow such a procedure. But it sure would be wonderful if the Church did exercise church discipline with people like this. Unfortunately, it is swiftly becoming a dinosaur (see points above where I enumerate Biblical options for who can name false teachers). I am all for Matthew 18 and I Corinthians 5:1-12. But if a teacher such as Richard Foster has already published his teachings, then the privacy component is no longer even possible, as it is obliterated by the teacher himself making his teaching public. And if the Church fails to act, we must still warn the rest of the Body of Christ.

 

This reinforces my previous point: we always place a verse in its larger context before we determine what it says to us and the Church today. To use several Scriptures as proof texts does violence to those verses by cutting them from their contexts, thus presenting a hodge podge of guidance and instruction. (The classic joke about proof texting goes something like this: A man was having trouble in his life and in trying to decide what to do he consults the Scriptures. So he balances the Bible on its spine and removes his hands. When the Bible falls open, he reads the first passage that his eyes fall on, "Judas went out and hanged himself." Since he had decided to do the exercise several times until he got clear instruction, he again balances the Bible on its spine, letting it fall open. The next time he reads, "Go and do likewise"!)

 

RESPONSE:

 

I address context at length in previous paragraphs. There is no context in the Church today where divination, summoning up spirits, Eastern Meditation (opposite of Biblical meditation) is allowed.

 

This brings us back to where we started.  As you propose, is Richard Foster misleading people because he quotes Carl Jung? No. Could he have found another person to quote? Maybe. Do the quotes he uses from Carl Jung strengthen Foster's argument? Yes. Even though Jung may not have been an orthodox Christian, he recognized that the Devil can lead us astray through busyness and that all adults need to regain the imaginations they lost as their parents "civilized" them.

 

Again I address Carl Jung extensively above and why he should not be given any credence. He particularly should not be quoted because he is one possessed by a demon, one of Satan's fallen angels. Jung and Biblical Christianity don't even share the same understanding of who the Devil is! So Christians should not gain or regain false visions that Satan would love to give them.

 

(Is it possible that great inventors and creative artists are unique because they never lost their God-given, childhood imaginations?) Should Foster declare Thomas Merton a false teacher? No.

 

RESPONSE:

 

I must beseech you to tell you that is not Biblically correct! Particularly as you point out, Richard Foster has his Phd in Pastoral Theology. Pastor is another word for Overseer. And what does the Bible say about his responsibility? Elders have a greater responsibility and a stricter accounting being teachers. So, yes, Richard Foster should declare Thomas Merton a false teacher! Better yet, Richard Foster should do so from a position of repentance for his own false teaching.

 

Here is just one Scriptural passage to verify that pastors do need to declare who is a false teacher:

 

"Since an overseer is entrusted with God's work, he must....refute those who oppose it....they must be silenced because they are ruining whole households." Titus 1: 7-11 NIV

 

This is the responsibility of the gathered community.

 

 

RESPONSE:

 

What gathered community? Do you mean the Church? Martin Luther did not bring the gathered community together to confront the Catholic Church. He was the lone voice, at first. But he was the one on trial. So was Martin Luther to remain silent until he could recruit more that agree with him? Indeed the local Church should ultimately act. But if it won't that does not mean we (the rest of the Body of Christ) should be silent. And who is going to gather together in a community to identify Robert Schuller as a false teacher? There may never be such a "gathered community." The Apostle Paul identified a number of false teachers without the community even gathering.

 

One more comment. The verse you quote, Romans 16:7, "Now I beseech you, brethren (plural), mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye (plural) have learned; and avoid them" was written by Paul to the Roman church--a church meeting in homes scattered throughout the city--that needed vital instruction on how to deal with people who were teaching and doing things contrary to his teaching. This verse was not written to give individuals authority to search out anyone they think is a false teacher or a heretic or worse and then write an "expose" about that person in a book or on the web.

 

Today is the first time in Church history when individuals have self-appointed themselves to hunt out people they have determined are unorthodox and pursue them relentlessly through various mass media until their reputations and ministries are ruined. According to the guidelines given to us by Jesus and the Epistles, today's self-appointed heresy hunters are operating outside the biblical and historical Church.

 

RESPONSE:

 

This is so absurd I can not even believe I am reading this. Millions of individuals throughout the history of the Church have been running for their lives because they dared to speak the truth about heresy after heresy. Countless persecuted and martyred saint's blood cries out from the ground. These people had but to remain silent, as you suggest. But thank God they did not. You need to read Fox's Book of Martyrs just for starters, then repent for having made such an irresponsible statement. The Roman Catholic Church, which you embrace in your ecumenical Renovare organization, hunted down true Christians and burned them at the stake. The Roman Catholic Church were heretic hunters, but they were the true heretics. If you are so passionately opposed to heretic hunters, then who don't you oppose the organization that is responsible for the death of more saints than any organization in history? Regarding Richard Foster, I did not have to hunt him down. The aroma of his teaching is in the air conditioning systems of thousands of churches and is coming out of the pores of where I have witnessed the saturation of Carl Jung teaching, particularly the Willowcreek Church and Association and Rick Warren's toolbox which feeds tens of thousands of churches and pastors all over the world.

 

This leads one to ask, what if the gathered community doesn't act when a person is involved in willful sin or teaches false doctrine? As an individual, my duty is to pray about the situation and bring the issue to the community to which that person belongs if I am so led by the Holy Spirit. If the community doesn't do anything, then I avoid that person and depend on God to judge and deal with that person's actions and the inaction of the community. I know this goes against everything that the American culture and our natural impulses tell us, but we are members of the Kingdom of God with an agenda and destiny that is 180 degrees counter to the Kingdom of Man.

 

RESPONSE:

 

Yes there is a point where you avoid the unrepentant brother and shake the dust from your feet. But we are to never stop warning every other church about this false teacher, particularly when his or her teachings continue to be published and church after hapless church continues to import their teachings and the teacher themselves. As long as we have breath we must do this. Your idea to cease to maintain a voice is exactly what happen in the pedophile priest scandal and Cardinal Law. The given local community followed your instructions. Meanwhile the Roman Catholic Archbishop, Bernard Law simply shuffled perpetrators off to another unsuspecting parish. Besides, there is not a shred of Scriptural precedent where we are to cease warning the Church about an unrepentant false teacher. The Epistles were circulated throughout all of Christendom so that every community outside of the local gathered community would be warned, while those false teachers were alive. And they are in circulation to this day so that false teachers teaching the same ideas could be identified and marked. That is why Richard Foster must be marked and everyone warned! These ministries should be ruined. These false teachers would not have had their reputations ruined if they were not teaching ideas contrary to the Apostles Doctrine. They have only themselves to blame. Don't shoot the messenger.

 

In closing, can I make three suggestions?

 

1.  That you seriously consider the positive influence the writings of people like Richard Foster have had on the spiritual lives of people in conjunction with the negative impact the books and web sites that slam fellow Christians have had on people's lives.

 

RESPONSE:

 

I don't agree with your premise. Richard Foster's teachings are not a positive influence. They, along with Carl Jung and a host of other teachers he quotes are a Clear and Present Danger to the Church!

 

Pray over it. Ponder it. Ask God to help you discern the answer. The criteria I use to discern the impact of a ministry is this: Does ministry help people be a "light on a hill" to the rest of the world or live the life Jesus taught, "I came that they might have life and have it more abundantly" (John 10:10)?

 

 

RESPONSE:

 

I use the same criteria and ask the same question: Does the ministry help people? But I determine whether it helps someone, not by subjective means but by testing the teaching against Scripture. I check the root systems of the teaching. A thornbush can not produce figs. You can call it a fig all you want, but it is still a thorn. I check out where did the ideas come from from the teachers of the teachers as well. If they do not speak to the Law and the Prophets, there is no light in them...not some light, not alot of light. NO LIGHT!

 

Regarding "help"...the following Scripture capsulizes where I believe our help should come from:

 

"I will lift up mine eyes unto the hills, from whence cometh my help. My help [cometh] from the LORD, which made heaven and earth." Psalm 121:1-2

And by the way, note once again, the eyes are OPEN!

 

Regarding your reference to "light on a hill," it would have been very instructive for you to have quoted this entire Scriptural passage. The rest of it says: "can not be hid".

 

"Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid." Matthew 5:14

 

So if this is true, then all of your statements to me should be a light on a hill that can not be hid. So, why would you then be so upset that I pass this light (of your statements) on to Lighthouse Trail and for "the rest of the world" to see? This doesn't make any sense...that is unless you really do have something to hide! We are certainly called to be a light on a hill, but that light must not be strange fire. WOE to any elder who inquired of your office for clarifications on Richard Foster and Renovare's teaching, who then had the audicity to share this information with the board of elders or congregation before they made a decision to invite him as a speaker or purchase any of his books. God have mercy on this person!

 

2.  That you study the fallacies in logic. It would help you identify the numerous errors in logic that appear every day in the news media, speeches, books, and on the web.

 

RESPONSE:

 

Well I studied logic in college and in Missile Maintenance School (computer electronics courses required us to study logic because of logic circuits, .e.g, And, Or, Nand, Nor Gates). Let me just say one thing about the Lord's logic circuit: You cannot serve two masters! You can think what you like about my abilities in logic. But the fact remains, no Christian needs logic courses to determine if or how they are to obey clear commandments. Certainly precious few of the original disciples and early Christians had scholarly academic skills. So this is a false criteria for determining a false teacher.

 

3.  That you take a class in Biblical Interpretation. In this course you would learn how to use Scripture correctly in order to strengthen your statements and arguments. These studies help us avoid making fools of ourselves. Though old enough to retire, I am still studying both.

 

 

RESPONSE:

 

I study the Bible and Bible Interpretation via a host of scholars by book and online at least 40 hours a week. I also run my articles by a great number of pastors and fellow scholars all over the world before I publish anything. Of course I have no problem with those who do it by taking classes. In fact many professors who teach Biblical Intepretation and related subjects at Seminaries review my commentaries and articles.

 

Now here are my suggestions (admonitions) for you:

 

"See to it that no one take you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ." Colossians 2:8 NIV

 

"If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him. Anyone who welcomes him shares in his wicked work." 2 John 2:10 NIV

 

"So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings we passed on to you whether by word of mouth of by letter." "If anyone does not obey our instruction in this letter, take special note of him in order that he may feel ashamed." II Thessalonians 2:13, 3:14 NIV

 

I appeal to you and Richard Foster to repent of and renounce your false teachings and no longer be partners with them and share in their sins.

*********

Please find enclosed my response to Lynda Graybeal's September 24, 2003 Letter.  Again, her statements are in black, my responses in blue font.

James Sundquist

Rock Salt Publishing

*****

24 September 2003

Dear James,

 

When Richard received your first letter and I received your second, we thought you were wanting to open an honest and transparent private dialogue about the issues of Christian belief, faith, and practice that you raised.

 

RESPONSE:

 

So where was I dishonest? You presented yourself as a spokesperson for Richard Foster. I was clear on who I was. And when you asked what my motivation was, I answered you straight away! As President of Rock Salt Publishing, which has published discernment articles all over the world and the internet, what do you suppose my intent was? You already did your own search on the internet to find me, so there is nothing that is not transparent about who I am or what I do. What did you expect that I would do? If your statements do not represent your public or published position(s), then it is your responsiblity to so state and or refrain from disseminating them to me. So what do you want to do, now retract something you said? If it is the truth, why would you be so angry for the whole world to even know? You also had no problem venting your opinions about a number of other people in your correspondence without discussing them with those parties. Do you want to talk about honest. Honesty would be to not pass yourself off as a Christian, or your teachings as Christian, when they clearly are not. Honesty would be answering "Yes" to the quotes of Richard Foster on Lighthouse Trails and not "No" as Richard Foster did through your correspondence to me. Then I was able to confirm that those quotes are true and verified on other sites which simply quoted them from Richard's books. Honesty would be to tell every Church that these teachings are not in the Bible or are forbidden in the Bible BEFORE they invite Richard Foster to speak there. Honesty would be not finding some obscure quote from a false teacher who happens to say something that is true, then obscure the greater reality of Satanic belief systems people like Carl Jung adherred to. This is deception of the highest order.

 

Now I find that you set us up and forwarded our private correspondence to Ray Yungen.

 

RESPONSE:

 

You defame Ray Yungen and Lighthouse Trails to me and expect me to remain silent and not inform them? There was nothing in your previous correspondence to indicate that it was private or confidential, and no reason to even suspect that it might be as though you were a patient of a physician, or your medical records.

 

 

 

 

Shame on you.

 

RESPONSE:

 

Well there is certainly plenty of shame to go around with the number of teachers promoting Eastern Meditation mysticism in the Church but calling it Biblical Meditation. Let me tell you what I am not ashamed of, that is the Gospel of Jesus Christ which is the power to save me from the wrath of God. The one who should be ashamed is the one who is promoting false teachings. Of this I am sure! I will only be ashamed if I remain silent and refrain from exposing the deeds of darkness to the whole church and reproving anyone that promotes Carl Jung or another gospel, particularly when done in the guise of Christianity. I know that you think that this should be the end of the matter. But I am constrained by Scripture to inform Lighthouse Trails of your teachings as well as warn a great number of discernment ministries around the world, pastors, and individuals.

 

You can tell Ray that Richard Foster will not read his letter that he will not get a response from Richard because we refuse to participate in these unethical and unChristian actions.

 

 

RESPONSE:

 

When right confronts wrong, and wrong does not repent, wrong always retaliates! So you are going to disobey Matthew 18 when a brother has an offense against you. Even if Ray Yungen is wrong, then it becomes your responsiblity to confront him for his wrong doing so that he may be corrected. You who are such a passionate defender of Matthew 18, would now obliterate the process? Ray Yungen and I have followed the initial steps of Matthew 18 with Richard Foster, and he still has not repented or received correction. So since you are so eager to pursue Matthew 18, the next step would be to take it before his church. So why don't you tell us the name of his church so that we can consummate this process? And why don't you tell us the name of your church too so that we can obey Matthew 18 with you as well? With everything you have accused me of, I would happily comply with having you bring me before the counsels of the community, so long as I am able to present all of my findings to defend myself. And like the Apostle Paul and Martin Luther, would even appeal for the opportunity to be tried and/or to publically debate and defend my case as well as your personal charges against me. When did it become unethical to publically expose false teachers? Shout it from the rooftops!

 

Another footnote on what you think is unethical.  If I were one of many elders in a church or groups of churches simply testing the spirits and examining the teaching of Richard Foster because our church was thinking about bringing him in as a speaker, then I learn some troubling things he or you, as his spokesperson (Lynda), tell me about this person's teaching, wouldn't it be not only unethical, but unbiblical to not discuss with the rest of the elders who would make this decision to keep this information to myself...and simply allow this teaching into the church for multitudes to hear and adhere to?  Even if your statements regarding his teaching were all correct and biblical, they might be very helpful to giving further insight into the man Richard Foster to help us focus the elders and congregation? I write articles that are reprinted in other discernment journals and newsletters that go out to thousands of pastors and missionaries around the world who want a multitude of godly counsel and want to draw from those who have the gift of discernment of spirits in order to protect and warn the sheep of their folds. They are right to do this. So there is nothing unethical about it whatsover, not to do so would be a dereliction of duty and quite simply irresponsible. I will continue to be so constrained to warn them all about the teachings of Richard Foster, as will all of the other discernment ministries listed at the end of this letter.

 

And by the way, I agree with Ray Yungen's correcting you in his letter to you regarding your false definition of the word "disciple." Well he was right and you were wrong! Instead of retaliating, why can't you humble yourself and admit you were wrong?

 

I now also have both a right and moral obligation to respond to your charges that my practices are unethical and unChristian, and will so inform everyone that I submit my articles to.

 

At the end of this document is a copy of the Ray Yungen Letter to Richard Foster which Richard Foster via his colleague Lynda Graybeal indicates their refusal to respond.

 

Regarding your term "slamming" a Christian. I believe that you are "slamming" people like Al Dager, Ray Yungen, or me for that matter.

 

Scriptures which authorize rebuking (which you probably would construe as "slamming" a Christian):

Consider these Bible verses:

1Timothy 5:20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

 

Titus 1:13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;

 

Titus 2:15 These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.

 

2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

 

Proverbs 28:23 He that rebuketh a man afterwards shall find more favour than he that flattereth with the tongue.

 

Proverbs 27:5 Open rebuke [is] better than secret love.

 

2Ti 2:17 "And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and
Philetus;" (NIV renders their teaching gangrene in the body of Christ.  According to what you've said, you would have Paul guilty of "slamming" Hymenaeus and Philetus.)

 

1Jo 4:5-6 "They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error."

 

2Jo 1:10 "If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into [your] house, neither bid him God speed:"

 

2Jo 1:11 "For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds."

 

1Jo 4:1 "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world."

 

Upon inquiring of the various ministries and individuals who have challenged or opposed Richard Foster and many other Christian leaders and psychologists, I learned that these Christians who were simply trying to be good Bereans in searching the Scriptures to see if these things be so, have often been accused of: SLAMMING, attacking a brother or sister in the Lord, bashing, smearing, touching God's anointed, not following Matthew 18, etc. It is getting to the point that even with the meekest and gentlest and kindest of voices you cannot correct or reprove a Christian leader. I am desperate to know if there is ever any situation in which these people think that correcting, opposing, rebuking, rebuking sharply, reproving, warning, silencing voices which ruin whole households, entreating, bringing an accusation against an elder with two or more witnesses, taking a brother before the entire church, turning a brother over to Satan, calling for repentance, admonishing, warning, appealing, expelling, which are all verbs the Apostle Paul used, is NOT harming these great leaders or tearing down the Church, but actually helping them and the church? Is there one person that this was done to in which they believed the action helped the person vs. destroying them and ruining their ministry and reputation as they allege? You would think that correcting a brother is somehow cursing a brother!

 

Why is it when a pastor or famous Christian psychologist or pastor can do any of the above verbs and that is considered commendable, but when a brother does it to an elder they are reprobate? As for myself, I do not wish to malign or harm Richard Foster in any way. But for me to remain silent in face of his published teaching, I would be harming him as well as those he teaches and claims he his helping. Richard Foster is also harming himself by resisting correction and not amending his published teaching on Prayer Centering and giving credence to Carl Jung, Thomas Merton, Agnes Sanford, and Thomas Keating. I pray that he heeds this counsel for his own good as well as for the good of God's people!

 

 

Finally, as the Apostle Paul said, I am therefore now the enemy because I tell you the truth?

 

Sincerely in Christ,

 

James Sundquist

President
Rock Salt Publishing

Where you can study Spiritual Formation False Teacher Richard Foster***:

Bill Hybel's Willowcreek Church & Association http://www.willowcreek.org

(7,000+ churches and pastors worldwide)

List of Spiritual Formation False Teachers promoted at Willowcreek Church:

Carl Jung
Morton Kelsey
Brennan Manning
Basil Pennington
Richard J. Foster (Renovare)
Karen Mains (Renovare)
Thomas Keating
Tilden Edwards
M. Scott Peck
David A. Seamands
Thomas Merton
Henri Nouwen
Philip Yancey
Mother Teresa
Pope John Paul
Dr. John Stoll
Keri Wyatt Kent
Gilbert Bilezikian
Parker Palmer
Ignatius Loyola
John Ortberg
David Keirsey, author of Please Understand Me II and Keirsey Temperament Sorter

Finally.....This is not a person's name: Lecto Divina & Centering, promoted by Richard Foster in his book, Spiritual Classics.
&

Rick Warren's Saddleback Church and his Pastor's Toolbox website:

http://www.pastors.com

Peter Marshall

http://www.petermarshallministries.com

 

RENOVARE
http://www.renovare.org

***The is only a partial list as there are thousands of other churches, schools, and missionary organizations who promote or implement Richard Fosters teachings.

Discernment Ministries which expose the false teaching of Richard Foster:

 

DESPATCH MAGAZINE

http://www.despatch.cth.com.au/Despatch/foster_vol_7_2.htm

 

LIGHTHOUSE TRAILS

http://www.lighthousetrails.com

 

ALAN MORRISON

http://www.diakrisis.org

 

BEREAN BEACON (Richard Bennett, former Roman Catholic Priest)

The Mystic Plague, Catholicism Sets a Spiritualist Agenda

http://www.bereanbeacon.org/MysticPlague.html

 

BERIT & ANDY KJOS

http://www.crossroad.to

 

ROCK SALT PUBLISHING

http://www.seppalaconsulting.com/rocksalt/

 

Pastor Gary Gilley, Southern View Chapel

http://www.svchapel.org/ThinkOnTheseThingsMinistries/publications/html/expernc3.html

 

CEPHAS MINISTRIES

http://www.svchapel.org/ThinkOnTheseThingsMinistries/publications/html/expernc3.html

 

DECEPTION IN THE CHURCH

http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/thirdwave.html

 

CALVARY CONTENDER

http://home.hiwaay.net/~contendr/5-2003.html

 

BIBLICAL DISCERNMENT MINISTRIES

http://home.hiwaay.net/~contendr/5-2003.html

 

LET US REASON

http://www.letusreason.org/NAM27.htm

 

Media Spotlight - World Christian Movement, Part Two by Al Dager

http://www.banner.org.uk/globalism/WCM2.html

 

BEREAN CALL --- Dave Hunt

http://www.bereancall.org

 

PSYCHOHERESY AWARENESS

http://www.psychoheresy-aware.org/navigators.html

 

BAYITH MINISTRIES http://www.bayith.org (Elizabeth McDonald &Dusty Peterson)

 

NEWS & VIEWS

http://www.llano.net/baptist/nv097.htm

 

CHRISTIAN RESEARCH NETWORK

(For Poisoning the Wells review by Alan Howe of Richard Foster's Streams of Living Water)

http://www.c-r-n.org.uk/

 

*****

Letter from Ray Yungen, Lighthouse Trails Publishing to Richard Foster:

 

October 6, 2003

 

“I want to assure you, for what it’s worth, that I bear Richard Foster no personal animosity. My reason for writing this testimony is that with the rising tide of critical input my book may bring I want to clarify why I am doing this type of activity.

It has come to my attention that some view the current controversy regarding Richard Foster as stemming from a misunderstanding of his statement “we of the new age” in the first edition of Celebration of Discipline. This is not the case. The real issue lies in his statement where he encourages, “we should all, without shame, enroll as apprentices in the school of contemplative prayer,” and also in his statement that “Christianity is not complete without the contemplative dimension.”

 

It is from these comments and this viewpoint that opposition to Foster flows. If he were to understand why this is so, his sense of having his reputation falsely impaired would be greatly tempered. In Portland, Oregon there is a very large bookstore called New Renaissance Books. It is entirely devoted to New Age spirituality. Every Eastern mystical and metaphysical topic under the sun is found there. Interestingly enough, there is quite a sizable section devoted to contemplative prayer with Thomas Merton having a whole shelf devoted just to him. Why would a bookstore of this nature devote valuable space to a topic that purports to be Christian? That is, from my perspective, a legitimate question.

May I suggest the reason is that the Christian mystical tradition shares a sense of profound kinship with the Eastern mystical tradition. I believe there is ample evidence to back this claim up. Look at the following quotes from leading contemplative figures; the answer is inescapable.

 

 

 

1. Thomas Merton: “I think I couldn’t understand Christian teaching

the way I do if it were not in the light of Buddhism.”1

Richard Foster

Promoting Eastern Mysticism By Proxy

by Ray Yungen

 

2. Henri Nouwen: Nouwen wrote that his solitude and the solitude

of his Buddhist friends, would “greet each other and support each

other.”2

 

3. Basil Pennington: “We should not hesitate to take the fruit of the

age old wisdom of the East and ‘capture’ it for Christ. Indeed, those

of us who are in ministry should make the necessary effort to

acquaint ourselves with as many of these Eastern techniques as

possible … 3

 

4. Morton Kelsey: “You can find most of the New Age practices in

the depth of Christianity [Christian church tradition].”4

 

5. Tilden Edwards: “This mystical stream [contemplative prayer] is

the Western bridge to Far Eastern spirituality.”5

 

6. Alice Bailey: “None other than Alice Bailey, the famous occult

prophetess who coined the term New Age, made this

startling pronouncement: ‘It is, of course, easy to find many passages

which link the way of the Christian Knower [mystic] with that of

his brother in the East. They bear witness to the same efficacy of

method.’”6

 

7. In The Lay Contemplative fourteen centers listed in the back of the

book openly proclaim their Hindu-Buddhist connections, including

Shalem Prayer Institute.

 

I could easily provide page after page of similar quotes from numerous contemplative sources. That is why New Renaissance Books features a section on contemplative prayer. That is why opposition from others and myself has come forth. There is no misconstruing of realities here. Tilden Edwards knew what he was saying when he said that contemplative prayer is the Western bridge to

Far Eastern spirituality. To put it in a nutshell, I believe Richard Foster advocates a prayer movement that indeed can be proven to have strong links to Eastern mysticism. And incidentally, this prayer method does not have its origins with the Desert Fathers, as some believe, but rather dates back much further, probably as far back as the early days of mankind.

 

To proclaim to be evangelical in every aspect but to say, “Thomas Merton tried to awaken God’s people” as Foster said personally to me at a conference in November of 1994 is a contradiction of major proportions. It is an oxymoron to try to lump Biblical evangelicalism and Thomas Merton together.

To list in the back of Celebration of Discipline Tilden Edward’s book, Spiritual Friend, as an “excellent book on spirituality” is unthinkable.7 Tilden Edwards sees no problem mixing Christianity and Buddhism. Yet the Apostle Paul says you can’t sit at both tables. It cannot be done. To do that is to abandon Jesus Christ. So someone who understands the preaching of the Cross would never be comfortable promoting someone who believes as Tilden Edwards does, especially in print. If one really does believe in a Biblical evangelical statement of faith, [such as Foster’s] then wouldn’t that person be repelled by such compromise? And to say the least, wouldn’t it certainly draw a lot of confusion to

those that recognize this? If someone with a public profile ardently promotes another person, such as when Foster says Thomas Merton has “priceless wisdom”8 for the spiritual life of the Christian, won’t those listening think he approves of or at the very least overlooks Merton’s serious heretical stands and perhaps then desire to follow Merton, thus possibly falling into Merton’s spiritual errors? If Foster could put himself in the shoes of we who are confused by his

position, surely he can understand why we see such a contradiction. I once heard a pastor quote Woody Allen saying that he (Woody) wasn’t afraid to die; he just didn’t want to be there when it happened. For someone to make an issue with this pastor, because he used a quote from Woody Allen, would be ludicrous because that is simply guilt by association. But if the same pastor, in a serious tone, said that Woody Allen had great spiritual understanding and everyone should listen to him to gain insight, that no longer is benign, and it now becomes guilt by promotion—two different terms with two significantly different principles. Guilt by association is weak; guilt by promotion is strong. May I briefly address just three more points? The comment made that Lighthouse Trails Publishing erroneously labeled Foster a disciple of Thomas Merton because he never met him personally is not accurate, and here is why. In checking with two prominent dictionaries, the word disciple does mean anyone who is an adherent of someone’s teachings or school of religion. (American Heritage Dictionary and Webster’s) According to both of these reliable resources, personal contact is not a stipulation. The fact that Foster quotes Merton 13 times in the latest edition of Celebration of Discipline is just further proof that he does indeed adhere to Merton’s teachings. And we could list a number of other references to back up that assertion. I would like to also make an observation about the view that the New Age movement is only a few decades old. The term itself may indeed

be fairly recent but the actual practices and beliefs involved are thousands

of years old. For instance, the slave girl mentioned in Acts 16 was in effect a New Ager. The term itself was taken from astrology making reference to the Aquarian age in which humanity is supposedly going to realize its inner divinity. Hence, anyone who engages in these mystical practices is associated with this view, even though they may have lived centuries ago. It’s not the term; it’s the practices that are at issue here.

 

Since Thomas Merton and Henri Nouwen mystically perceived the divine

in everyone this in effect made them New Agers. Frankly, but respectfully, we see Foster as someone who is promoting Eastern mysticism by way of proxy9 and he is apparently afraid to come out of the mystical closet. His affinity with those who clearly stand for heretical and non-biblical approaches to God, however, are opening that closet door.

 

In Christ,

Ray Yungen, Author of A Time of Departing

Lighthouse Trails Publishing

www.lighthousetrails.com

(Footnotes)

1 Frank X. Tuoti,

The Dawn of the Mystical Age, Crossroad Publishing Co. New York, NY 1997 p. 127

2 Henry Nouwen,

Sabbatical Journey, Crossroad Publishing Company, New York, NY 1998 p. 20

3 M. Basil Pennington, Thomas Keating, Thomas E. Clarke, Finding Grace at the

Center, St. Bede’s Pub. Petersham, MA 1978, pp5-6

4 “In the Spirit of Early Christians,” Common Boundary magazine, Jan./Feb.

1992. P. 19

5 Tilden Edwards, Spiritual Friend, Paulist Press, New York, 1980, p. 18

6 Ray Yungen, A Time of Departing, Lighthouse Trails Publishing 2002, p. 34

quoting Alice Bailey , From Intellect to Intuition, Lucis Publishing Co., New York,

NY 1987, 13th printing, p. 193

7 Richard Foster, Celebration of Discipline, A Brief Bibliography of Recent Works,

back of book

8 Richard Foster and James Bryan Smith,

Devotional Classics, Harper San Francisco, 1993, p. 61

9 By Proxy: To represent another”

**********************************************************************************

  
Dear Vicki Dillen,
 
Here is the rest of the documentation I promised you!
Thank you for your highly esteemed consideration!

SIncerely in Christ,

James Sundquist

President

Rock Salt Publishing
*****

 

Dear Lynda (Graybeal, Administrator at Renovare),


I am sorry I did not get back to you right away, as I am very happy to answer your very good questions!  I had to finish an article I am publishing on Church Government.  I finally was able to get the manuscript finished and sent.


Here is why I am happy to respond to you:


1Pe 3:15  But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and [be] ready always to [give] an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear: (See also I Timothy 4:6 below)


I also like to pray and ponder what the Lord might have me say in both my responses as well as anything I publish for Rock Salt.  In responding to you, I was assuming that you are a Christian if you are an associate of Richard Foster, who professes to be one.  If you are a Christian and know the Scripture well, you will understand my motivation and arguments put forth.  By Christian, I mean what the Scriptures require, that is one is a Christian who professes the following Scriptures:


John 3:16:“For God so love the world that he gave he only begotten son that whosoever believeth in him shall not perish, but have everlasting life.”





Jhn 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.



Jhn 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.



Act 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.


Jhn 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.


Act 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.


Hbr 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.


Jhn 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
 
If you are not a Christian, I invite you to become one, in accordance with the above Scriptures. The following are Scriptural Commands given by Jesus and the Apostles which we must adhere to if we are to obey all the Christ has commanded us.  I am a Christian, so this is my motivation.  In fact, as a Christian, as soon as we are redeemed, we forfeit all rights to remain silent.  We must tell the truth and we must not bear false witness against a brother, and we must earnestly contend for the faith once and for all delivered to the saints.  If you are a Christian your responsibility is identical to mine.  And Richard Foster's is identical.
 




Here are some of the Scriptural passages for my motivation and responsibility as a Christian:


1John 4:1-3  Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.  Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.


2Ti 4:2  Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.


2Ti 4:3  For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;


 2Ti 4:4  And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables (NIV myths) .
As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine,


 1Ti 1:4  Neither give heed to fables (NIV: myths) and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: [so do].


1Ti 4:1  Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
 1Ti 4:2  Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;


1Ti 4:6  If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.


Tts 1:9  Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers


Tts 1:11  Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.


Jam 3:1  My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.


2Pe 2:1  But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
 2Pe 2:2  And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.


Eph 5:6-7 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.Be not ye therefore partakers with them.


Eph 5:11  And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove [them].


2Cr 11:4  For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or [if] ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with [him].


Tts 3:10  A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;




And finally,


Gal 1:9  As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.


So now you may be rightfully asking the questions: “Well it is clear that false teaching is condemned, but how could we possible know what it truth? How can we identify false teaching? What does this have to do with Richard Foster?” I am sure you will agree that there is at least such a thing as false teaching.


The easiest way to identify false teaching is to line it up with Scripture. Carl Jung is a false teacher because he did not fear the Lord...necessary for the beginning of wisdom. He practiced divination, necromancy, astrology, and believed in evolution....all condemned in the Bible. This is all true by his own testimony, lectures, and publications. He admits to consulting with a spirit guide named Philemon which is a demon. This is not rocket science. From Carl Jung's own testimony, this is how he conceived his psychology and personality profiling. Here are three Scriptures to prove it:


Deu 8:10-12  There shall not be found among you [any one] that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, [or] that useth divination, [or] an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. For all that do these things [are] an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.


Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.


Rev 22:15  For without [are] dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.


And here is what Carl Jung thought about Jesus Christ and Communion (The Lord's Table):


“Slowly I came to understand that this communion had been a fatal experience for me. It had proved hollow; more than that, it had proved to be a total loss. I knew that I would never again be able to participate in this ceremony. "Why, that is not religion at all," I thought. "It is the absence of God; the church is a place I should not go to. It is not life which is there, but death." SOURCE: C. G. Jung. Memories, Dreams, Reflections, ed. by Aniela Jaffe, trans. by Richard and Clara Winston. New York: Pantheon, 1963, p. 55.




So, our instructions from the Lord are quite clear. Carl Jung believed in another Jesus and another gospel. Richard Foster should not be promoting Carl Jung's ideas or any Catholic Mystic or anyone one else who promotes him, but rather exposing him as a false teacher. And if you are a Christian you should not be a partaker with him, and thereby share in his sins as per the following commandment:


Rom 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.


Well I hope you now understand my motivation regarding my appeal to you as well as my warning to you and Richard Foster. But let me assure you that my intent is not to harm you or Richard Foster, but great concern for you and Richard Foster as well as the Body of Christ in general, I invoke the following Scripture:


2Ti 2:25-26  In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;  And [that] they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.


Thank you for responding to my emails. It is my fervent prayer that you take to heart my appeals and warnings and fully understand the urgency of my inquiry regarding the teaching of Richard Foster.


Kindest regards in Christ,


James Sundquist
President
Rock Salt Publishing
551 Valley Road, PMB #123
Montclair NJ 07043










 

Dear Lynda,

 

Thank you for your reply regarding Richard Foster.

 

I would like to respond to a few of Richard Foster's answers to my questions.

 

1.  He indicates in bold type below that he does not support or promote Carl Jung:

Yet as a co-founder of Renovare:  Foster and Vasivig have held many conferences and in 1991 held their second "National Conference on Personal Spiritual Renewal of Christian Leaders": "with more than one thousand pastors and leaders in attendance, the directors praised occultist/psychiatrist Carl Jung as a great psychiatrist emphasized personal renewal through 'meditative prayer' involving 'centering down' to become quiet and passive, then used guided imagery and visualization of Christ"

 

2.  He confirms below that the statements about Richard Foster on Lighthouse Trails are not true.  This is very serious.  So I invite you to visit their website and see for yourself that all of the quotes are taken directly from Richard Foster's own books and writings, with proper footnoting and citations.  I hope you are not saying these quotes are fabrications?  I invite you to check Richard Foster's own books to verify them.

 

3.  Here is a quote from Richard Foster himself that proves he is not a promoter of Carl Jung?:

 

"The inner world of meditation is most easily entered through the door of the IMAGINATION. We fail to today to appreciate its tremendous power. The IMAGINATION is stronger that the conceptual thought and stronger than the will. In the West, our tendency to deify the merits of rationalism - and it does have merit- has caused us to ignore the value of the imagination.
Some rare individuals may be able to contemplate in an image less void, but most of us need to be more deeply rooted in the senses. Jesus taught this way, making constant appeal to the imagination and the senses.... In his autobiography C. G. JUNG describes how difficult it was for him to humble himself and once again play IMAGINATION games of a child, and the value of that experience. Just as children need to learn to think logically, adults need to REDISCOVER THE MAGICAL REALITY of the IMAGINATION."

Show me Chapter and verse in the Bible where Jesus taught us to appeal to the imagination and the senses?  Here are some Scriptures which teach, in fact, the very opposite:

Gen 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man [was] great in the earth, and [that] every imagination of the thoughts of his heart [was] only evil continually.

NOTE THAT IS "EVERY"


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gen 8:21 "And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart [is] evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done."


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jer 11:8 "Yet they obeyed not, nor inclined their ear, but walked every one in the imagination of their evil heart: therefore I will bring upon them all the words of this covenant, which I commanded [them] to do; but they did [them] not."


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jer 16:12 "And ye have done worse than your fathers; for, behold, ye walk every one after the imagination of his evil heart, that they may not hearken unto me:"


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Jer 18:12 "And they said, There is no hope: but we will walk after our own devices, and we will every one do the imagination of his evil heart."


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Jer 23:17 "They say still unto them that despise me, The LORD hath said, Ye shall have peace; and they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you."

 2Cr 10:5  "Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;"

And Jesus did not appeal to our senses, but Satan does:

 1Jo 2:16 "For all that [is] in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world."

4.   “Richard Foster, having freely confessed to being influenced by … the psychology of the self-styled Gnostic Carl Jung…” [Morrison, op. cit., p432]

5.  And here are some quotes from Karen Mains, a devout defender of Carl Jung, who sits on your Renovare Board:

Here are two quotes from Karen Mains hungrysouls.org website, in case there is any doubt about her ecumenical eastern meditation, New Age centering, mystical leanings, and Carl Jung devotion:

 

 "Sacred journeys are as old as human cultures. They evolved from
the ritual paths of tribal societies; from the sacred ways of classical
Greece, Egypt, and the East; and from the flowering in the Middle
Ages of the great religious pilgrimages that still flourish."
Sacred Journeys by Jennifer Westwood

 

 A Pilgrimage to the Sites of the Spanish Mystics
"Travel to distant places has a way of opening a path inward, to possibility, to memory, even. After a while, the physical experience of travel somehow becomes less significant than the inner transformations we undergo when, by moving through space, bumping against strangeness and being changed by it, we somehow become more of who we are meant to be." - Abigail Seymour

 

***

Karen Mains Teachings:

http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/exposes/mains/

 

****

If there remains any doubt that Karen Mains promotes Carl Jung in inculcates her own teaching with Carl Jung, here is a quote from rapidnet:

 

" Her "spiritual director," a Catholic nun and Jungian psychotherapist, confirms what her evangelical, inner-healing therapist friend and "unofficial spiritual mentor" told her: "Your male-self is certainly wooing you." Karen Mains explains, "... this indeed is my male-self, the animus that I need to complement my female being, the anima. This psychological concept of the male-within-the-female and the female-within-the-male was developed by Carl Jung, but it has always seemed exceptionally scriptural to me." Mrs. Mains notes Jung's perspective "that for spiritual and psychological health a person must have a harmonious and friendly relationship with his or her unconscious" and adds, "Through the insistent initiation of the Holy Spirit, I am being forcefully guided to make rapprochement with my inner, deepest self." [What incredible self-delusion! The Holy Spirit's work and Jung's anti-Biblical concepts couldn't be more contrary to each other. Much of what Jung taught was derived from his own personal spirit guide, a demon named Philemon. (See  America: The Sorcerer's New Apprentice for Jung's heavily demonized background.)]

In a later Jungian session with her "spiritual director" at Cenacle, a Catholic contemplative retreat center, Mrs. Mains tells of a drastic change in the entity which has been appearing in her mind. In graphic detail, she describes an "idiot-child sitting at a table with other people ... totally bald head lolled to one side ... drooling ... six, seven or eight years of age ... emaciated and malnourished ... sad, huge eyes ... This is my idiot-child, the idiot-self of my self." Her "spiritual director" has her close her eyes and "see the child again." She does so and begins to communicate with the image who surprises them both by revealing that it is the "Christ child." [!!] (This is right out of the book, The Occult Christ, by Ted Andrews.) Mrs. Mains ponders the thought that the young man and the idiot-child are both Jesus Christ who has "been attempting to woo me because an essential part of my identity in Him has been expelled from my adult development." We find that this "Christ child," whom she is instructed to always take with her, is her "spiritual authority" [classic New Age terminology for "spirit guide"] which she is "afraid of having" and has "rejected not only [as] a part of myself, but a part of myself that is Christ."

There are three possibilities concerning Karen Mains and her spirit guide: (1) What she has written is the promotion of her own agenda through a vehicle which she self-characterizes: "Mains, you have a wacko creative imagination"; (2) Her penchant for introspection and symbolism have swept her into the delusionary world of the experiential and hopelessly subjective. This is pure Jungian hokum, nothing more; or (3) One and two have led her down the path to New Age shamanism, where, under the guise of psychological concepts and symbolism and through the occult practice of guided imagery, she has been in communication with a spirit guide -- in fact a demon appearing as an angel of light! From what she writes in this book, it appears that the third possibility is the reality in the life of Karen Mains. Indeed, with Jung's "christ" come Jung's demons. (Reported in/excerpted from the 3/94 The Berean Call and/or Media Spotlight, Vol. 15, No. 1, pp. 5-7. For another independent review of Lonely No More, see Michele Witchell's article in the July/August 1994, Contender's Journal: "The Fruit of a Psychological Gospel.") [Lonely No More was also advertised as a gift-giving book in Chapel of the Air 's 1994, 50-Day Spiritual Adventure Journal booklet.]" SOURCE:  

http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/exposes/mains/adventure.htm

 

So for Richard Foster to maintain that he is not a supporter of Carl Jung is simply not true, from his own testimony.  

 

Finally, what astonishes me the most is that RIchard Foster does not mark Thomas Merton as a false teacher whom he admires who states that he (Merton) sees no contradiction between Buddhism and Christianity...I intend to become as good a Buddhist as I can."  

 

I pray you take this to heart, even if you are not able to persuade your colleague Richard Foster.

 

Kindest regards in Christ,

James Sundquist

************************************************

 

----- Original Message -----
From: Lynda Graybeal
To: Rock Salt Publishing
Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2003 2:15 PM
Subject: Re: Carl Jung, Renovare & Lighthouse Trails


28 August 2003
 
Dear James,
 
Thank you for your message to Richard Foster. Richard considered your questions, and I have inserted his answers in BOLD CAPS in the body of your message.
 
Lynda Graybeal, Administrative Associate of Richard J. Foster
----- Original Message -----
From: Rock Salt Publishing
To: richard@renovare.org
Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2003 12:32 PM
Subject: Carl Jung, Renovare & Lighthouse Trails


Dear Richard Foster,
 
I have learned that you are a supporter of Carl Jung's teaching.  Is this true?  NO.  (In other words, do you believe that Carl Jung is a true or false teacher?)
 
Two, I have read some material from Lighthouse Trails Publications by some people that of done research on your teachings.  Is their testimony true?  NO. Here is the website with their statements:
http://www.lighthousetrails.com/richardfoster.htm
 
Three, another website with your biography has an ad which offers mediums, numerology, and tarot cards.  Are you aware of this ad and do you believe in them? NO and NO.
http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/quakerism/73514
 
Four, a branch of Quakerism is known as Universalism.  Are you in that stream?  NO. One of the tenets of their faith states: "Our vision today is for the Society of Friends (Quakers) no longer to be just an arbour in the Christian garden but to be the seedbed of dynamic faith where those of any religion or none worship together in silence, ministry and witness, in the Quaker way." Does this represent your position? NO.
 
Five,  I discovered a quote from the following Quaker website: "Apocalyptically, the first Friends experienced the Second Coming of Christ in discovering the Spirit of love at the heart of their being "  SOURCE: http://www.universalistfriends.org/fromtheeditor.html Does this represent your position? NO.
 
I look forward to your response!

Kindest regards in Christ,
 
James Sundquist
 

 

 

 

 

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