As I promised, I have studied and prepared
a response to both of your last emails. I have also reviewed
any statements in my correspondence to you as to what I did or
did not say. My responses are in blue below your statements (except
for the links which are already in blue). I will also send
this as a file attachment in the event that there are formatting
problems.
In some cases I formatted your statements
in bold to better help identify what statement upon which I am
focusing. I will respond separately to your email of September
23rd in a day or two. Since your emails contain
all of my emails to you, I can search and verify if I have stated
what you say I state.
The
thing I found most notable in your September 15 email was not
so much what you said or responded to, but what you did not
respond to. I devoted a great deal of the initial part of my
letter attempting to determine whether or not you are a Christian,
according to the Scriptures which I supplied to you. I already
know that Richard Foster calls himself a brother in Christ.
You
did make some references to Christ's teachings. But in your September
15 letter, I did not get the impression that you are claiming
to be a born again Christian, again according to the Scriptures
I submitted. Now you very well could be. Would you kindly respond: Are you a
Christian....redeemed by the Blood of the Lamb?
The
answer is important, because there are a number of Scriptures
that deal with how we are to respond to people who call themselves
a brother or sister in Christ vs. how we are to deal with a person
who is an unbeliever. Just because you have an association with
Richard Foster, who claims to be a Christian, does not necessarily
mean that you are one....though you could be. But because by
your own declaration you are identified with him, I would be
properly grounded to exercise the appropriate Scriptures in responding
to you.
Sincerely,
James Sundquist
President
Rock Salt Publishing
****************
15 September 2003
Dear James,
Thank you
for answering my question about your motivation for making the comments
and asking the questions that you do about Richard Foster. Taking
your statement that "Only
a fool makes up his mind without hearing both sides of a story"
(Letter from James Sundquist to Mary Fairchild posted
at http://www.cephas-library.com/discernment/discernment_2_false_accusations_fairchild.html) at face value, here are my answers,
first to the factual errors that you repeat, errors
in logic that you and web sites like Lighthouse Trails make, a
theological issue, and exegetical issues.
RESPONSE:
I am not sure why you are
quoting me here. So I would like to clarify that I had already
heard Richard Foster's side of the story by virtue of all of
his published materials and website and his own quotes. Now it
is possible that someone could simply make up a quote and say
he said it. But this is a question of fact, and can easily be
verified by going right to the source, such as his book Celebration of Discipline.
You even quote from this book, so it is not as though Richard
Foster's story is not known. So I never made up my mind before
hearing (reading) his side of the story.
FACTUAL
ERRORS
1. Your
statement: Vaswig is co-founder of RENOVARE. The facts: Richard
Foster founded RENOVARE in 1988, and the incorporation papers
are signed by himself and his wife with myself and
a friend as witnesses. Vaswig was not involved in founding RENOVARE
and has been involved in RENOVARE only because he has
been on our Board of Trustees since 1989.
RESPONSE:
If Lighthouse or other links
I supplied made this statement and it is not correct, I am glad
to know this. So, who originally did make it? You should confront
this person. However, the fact remains that William L. Vaswig
is still very much identified with Richard Foster, given that
he has been on the Board of Trustees since 1989? If William L.
Vaswig's teachings do not line up with the Scriptures wouldn't
you disavow him and remove him from your Board of Trustees?
Your letter to me conveys the idea you are trying to distance
yourself from William L. Vaswig. If that is so, why do you offer
and recommend his books on your Renovare website? You may be
"technically" correct about Vaswig's title, but it
still creates the appearance of evil to the multitudes of outsiders
who are attempting to discern Renovare's position(s), before
they import its teachings or one of its teachers.
Later in your September 15,
2003 letter to me you state that simply quoting a person does
not mean you agree with everything else they say or publish.
That is true enough, and it would certainly be even rare where
one agreed 100% with another authors' quoted sources, unless
they quote accurately and directly from the Bible. But if you
are going to claim this priviledge regarding Richard Foster quoting
Merton or Jung, then you must accord to me the same priviledge
when I quote someone who has either misquoted or incorrectly
quoted another author or link. If we were accountable for every
single quote or misquote, there would be no end in sight because...one
way or the other....virtually every book ever written that quotes
another author eventually ends up having quoted a large percentage
of every book ever written. Same applies to links. If you kept
clinking links on someone's site, eventually you would land on
every website there is....that is if you have a million years.
2. Your statement: Foster and
Vaswig have "held
many conferences". The facts: The only RENOVARE
conferences that Vaswig has spoken at were held in Wichita,
Kansas, in 1989; in Pasadena, California, in 1991; and in
Houston, Texas, in 1999. In my opinion, three does not constitute
"many". You probably learned about the "National
Conference on Spiritual Renewal" held in Pasadena
from other web sites who have picked up their information from
MEDIA SPOTLIGHT written by Al Dager, a distorted
and skewed account of what happened.
RESPONSE:
If as
you claim and can prove that Al Dagers statements are incorrect,
distorted, or skewed, have you confronted him directly? If you
have the concern you have expressed in your September 15 letter,
wouldn't you need to exercise Matthew 18 that you told me I should
do? If you are so concerned that I talked to Lighthouse Trails
about your statements, then why are you talking about Al Dager
to me? And after all, you had no
problem discussing the people at Lighthouse Trails Publishing
with me. So turnaround is not fair play? You have accused them
of bearing false witness, yet you indicated that you don't think
I should tell them.
3. Your
statement: Karen Mains .
. . who sits on your RENOVARE
Board. The facts: Karen Mains is not nor ever has
been a member of our governing body, the Board of Trustees. She
was on a Board of Reference along with many other Christian leaders
who agreed to say a good word for RENOVARE if asked. At no time
did the Board of Reference have any governance duties or responsibilities.
This is another factual error
promulgated by Al Dager in MEDIA SPOTLIGHT.
RESPONSE:
I never stated that
Karen Mains sat on your Board of Trustees. I simply said "Board."
But, as in the case of my response above about William L. Vaswig,
regardless of which type of Board Karen Mains sits on at Renovare,
this nevertheless gives a clear unimpeachable impression that
she is identified with Renovare; likewise Renovare with
Karen Mains. In both cases (Karen Mains and William L. Vaswig)
you are now giving the distinct impression of trying to distance
yourselves from each of them. Why would you do that? But
it did not surprise me at all to see Karen Mains name on your
board, as her own teaching is replete with ideas drawn in parallel
to Richard Foster's teachings.
Once again you are using
ad hominem adjectives to describe Al Dager while you simultaneously
proclaim Matthew 18 and it is OK for you to talk about Lighthouse
Trails. There is a word for this in Scripture. I will let you
say it.
Other factual
errors that have proliferated on numerous web sites:
RESPONSE:
If as you state to me, there
are particularly substantial errors.... versus splitting hairs...wherein
the claimed teachings of Richard Foster, are, not in fact,
I am very glad to know this!
4. Richard
Foster is a psychologist. The fact: He holds a doctorate of pastoral
theology.
RESPONSE:
If a person with a Doctorate
in Pastoral Theology invokes unbiblical psychology to counsel
a Christian, this is a worse indictment. Richard Foster praises
psychology. Are you trying to distance yourself from psychology?
If so, then why do you promote Dr. Siang-Yang Tan, Professor
of Psychology at Fuller Theological Seminary as a speaker for
Renovare, as well as his books on your website? If you are not
praising psychology then why does the Renovare website promote
the occultic pagan rooted Enneagram Personality Profile* on Renovare
website? One can get a degree in Science to learn what the Theory
of Evolution teaches, but it is quite another thing to go out
and then recruit adherants to Evolution. True believers should
be using the knowledge they've acquired to expose Darwin and
Jung, not promote them.
"It would be better
that a millstone were tied around his neck and he be tossed into
the deepest ocean" than to stumble the least one of these
my children..." e.g., with occultic and antichrist teachers
such as Carl Jung. The guilt remains whether or not Richard Foster
is technically a licensed psychologist**, or merely uses psychology
while pastoring or counseling people with psychology, as these
counselees have put their trust in a man (Richard Foster) whom
they think to be a pastor. A pastor quoting Carl Jung in his
counseling? That is even more frightening, to say nothing of
being an abomination to the Lord Himself!! For truly, what fellowship does light have
with darkness, or the cup of the Lord with Belial? And if there
was every a person who walked in darkness and was demon-possessed,
it was Carl Jung!
*ENNEAGRAM
PERSONALITY PROFILE:
SOURCE: Robert Innes, Personality Indicators
and The Spiritual Life, Grove Books Ltd., Cambridge,
1996, p.3; The Ennegram is significantly occultic in nature and
origin, coming from Sufi, numerology, and Africa New-Age sources.
George Gurideff, Oscar Ichazo of Esalen Institute, and Claudio
Naranjo are the prominent New Agers who have popularized it,
and then introduced it, through Fr. Bob Oschs SJ, into the Christian
Church. For more information, I recommend Robert Innes' booklet
and Mitchell Pacwa SJ article's "Tell Me Who I Am, O Ennegram"
Christian Research Journal, Fall 1991, pp. 14ff.
If there is any doubt that
Enneagram Personality Profile, or Meyers-Briggs Temperament Sorter
(Carl Jung) is unbiblical and pagan-based, I invite you to read
the following documents:
http://www3.bc.sympatico.ca/st_simons/arm03.htm
&
http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Psychology/temper.htm
**PSYCHOLOGY
VS. THE BIBLE:
Psychology counsels no fear
of the Lord at anytime in any of its therapies, let alone
at the beginning. So there is no wisdom in it. The Bible teaches
that there is body, soul, and spirit; psychology says there is
only the body and the soul. The Bible teaches us that it is Holy
Spirit that will lead us in all truth and that it is sharper
than a two-edged sword, dividing even the soul from spirit. Psychology
doesn't even believe in the Holy Spirit. The Bible teaches us
about our eternal destiny. Psychology offers no hope for eternity.
The Bible teaches us to lay up for our selves treasures in heaven.
Psychology offers no concept of heaven to lay up your treasures
for. The Bible says seek ye first the kingdom of God and all
these things (our needs) will be added unto us. Psychology doesn't
seek first the Kingdom of God, in fact it never
seeks the Kingdom of God. The Bible teaches that our help comes
from the Lord. Psychology tells us our help comes from one or
more of unproven theories and tens of thousands of psychotherapists
whose ideas were drawn from paganism, divination, astrology,
humanism, and evolution. The Bible teaches that being lovers
of selves is mankind's problem. Psychology teaches that being
lovers of selves is the solution. Bible teaches that we can come
freely to drink the waters of life. Psychology charges for it.
The Bible offers the opportunity of becoming a new man in Christ.
Psychology offers an improved or even damaged version of the
old man. The Bible teaches that our strength is perfected in
weakness and that in suffering, sin loses its power. Psychology
teaches us how to balance our strengths and weaknesses with personality
profiles derived from paganism and divination. The Bible esteems
the contrite and broken spirit. Psychology esteems self-esteem.
The Bible teaches us to rejoice in the suffering or being persecuted
with Christ to produce character and overcome the world. Psychology
has no interest in Christ's suffering, our suffering with Christ,
or sees any redemptive value in his shed blood. The Bible teaches
that Jesus Christ believed in demon possession and delivered
those possessed. Psychology teaches that there is no such thing
as demon possession...so there is nothing to be delivered from.
Psychology does not believe we are in a spiritual war, because
it does not believe there is any such thing as Satan or his demons.
The Bible tells us that we war against principalities in heavenly
places. The Bible tells us how to be blessed in the Beatitudes.
Psychology doesn't even comprehend blessing, so it can not offer
anyone a blessing because it omits the person required to administer
these blessings, that is Jesus Christ. The Bible tells us we
can't produce the fruit of the spirit which is love, joy, peace,
patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control
without abiding in the vine which is Jesus Christ himself. Psychology
attempts to bear this fruit by abiding in the teaching of such
founders as Carl Jung and Sigmund Freud who opposed Christianity!
5. He
is a disciple of Thomas Merton (Lighthouse Trails). First,
to be a disciple of a person, one has to be with that person
while they are alive and learn from them. Historically,
numerous people have had disciples--Socrates, Jesus, Calvin, Freud--but
always during their lifetime while they were able to
teach their disciples face-to-face. Merton died
when Foster was a teenager. This is the first time I have
ever heard of one person being described as a disciple
of another when all they do is quote from a book.
RESPONSE:
First of all you don't have
the definition of "disciple" right in English. Check
Webster's Dictionary. But equally important is what the word
disciple is in Greek (that is the context of disciples of Jesus),
from which the word was translated.
The teacher does NOT have
to be alive and the student does not need to have known the teacher
in person. In fact, Jesus had died already (though he rose
again in a glorified body) when he gave the Great Commission
of Matthew 28:19:
"Go therefore
and make disciples of all the nations,
baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the
Holy Spirit,
NASB copyright 1995 Lockman Foundation |
The Greek word for "disciple"
used is:
matheteuo
{math-ayt-yoo'-o} The KJV uses the word
teach, but that is an understated word in English, though one
certainly does teach one's disciples. And note further
the Disciples are not making the whole world disciples of themselves
(the Disciples), but rather they are making the world disciples
of Jesus Christ, a third party.
If Lynda Graybeal's definition
is correct, and a true disciple must have have met Jesus in person
and known him while he was still alive, then no one in most of
Israel and everywhere outside of Judea, Galilee or Samaria could
truly be called a disciple of Jesus Christ even during the Apostolic
Age, let alone everyone who calls themselves a Christian today
or the last 2,000 years. I am most curious where you found your
definition.
Whether or not Richard Foster
fashions himself as a disciple of Thomas Merton, it is not a
matter of a single quote but many. Also, Richard Foster recommends
several of Thomas Merton's books in his Celebration
of Discipline book. Wouldn't this demonstrate
that a fair interpretation by any reader would be that Richard
Foster is a follower of Thomas Merton? Even if there was only
one quote such as, "Well, Thomas Merton tried to awaken
God's people," that single quote should be sufficient for
us to take warning. Here is another quote in which Richard Foster
embraces Thomas Merton's teaching:
On Thomas Merton's writings:
"This brief book (What is Contemplation?) is an excellent
introduction to contemplative prayer for everyone." (Source:
Richard Foster, Spiritual Classics, p. 21)
Why would you be so sensitive
about calling Richard Foster a disciple of Thomas Merton? Since
Richard Foster raves about Merton with thirteen quotes in his
book, why would he not be proud to be identified with Merton?
But it is not just Thomas Merton, but all of the people Foster
quotes or mimics, including Thomas Keating and Carl Jung, who
share the same or similar false teachings, that magnifies Richard
Foster's culpability and reasonable perception by the reader
or hearer that he is a disciple of Thomas Merton. In and of itself
it is not even wrong to quote a false teacher and properly cite
them. It is not the use
of quotations that is the problem, whether by Richard Foster
or others. Rather, the problem lies in the inherent promotion...by
using these quotations...of false teaching, ideas and techniques.
In fact, one could even quote Hitler or document some good
things he did, such as petting his dog, or requesting that a
"people's car" be invented! But such quotes would be
extremely dangerous and misleading without simultaneously identifying
him as the monster he was.
Quote from Susan Anderson
regarding Richard Foster quoting Carl Jung:
"Well, hey, Richard
Foster quoted Jung, so there must be something to Jung's writings,
teachings, etc., that are of value to me, to the church."
Off they go, marching straight ahead to their nearest bookstore
or library, to read Jung's writings, as their sinful human natures
have now had their appetites whetted for Satan's lies.
And, of course, he is most obliging and will help them open those
doors wide.
THAT'S the danger.
Among so many other dangers. I know more Christians (so-called,
anyway) who don't know which way is up, than I do Christians
who can readily discern truth from error. And I firmly
believe that NO person, calling themselves by our Lord's Name,
has any right...whatsoever...to use quotes from any unrighteous,
ungodly source, in order to bolster God's Word, Christ's teachings,
or any part of Scripture.
GOD'S WORD DOESN'T NEED
TO BE BOLSTERED BY ANYTHING JUNG HAD TO SAY." SOURCE: Susan Anderson September 25, 2003
Email to James Sundquist
I don't
know who the Morrison you quote (op. cit., p
432) is but can guarantee you he has never contacted
Richard Foster to see if what he says and/or writes about
Richard is accurate.
RESPONSE:
I am happy to supply you
with the source:
Alan Morrison
is a foremost Biblical Scholar in the United Kingdom. Here is
his website and one of his many articles exposing Richard Foster
and teachers like him: The Sorcerer's Apprentice
Website: http://www.diakrisis.org
Your statement
about Alan Morrison not contacting Richard Foster to determine
whether what he wrote (published) or said is accurate is nothing
short of astonishing to me! Short of plaigerizing, imagine having
millions of readers of various books having to contact the writer
to see if he wrote what he wrote. This is absurd. You are not
supposed to have to contact the author, that is why they published
it. How are we to ever know what he really meant? Does Richard
Foster know the contents of the emails you are sending to me
and other people?
ERRORS IN LOGIC (commonly know as fallacies in logic
or logical fallacies).
RESPONSE:
I am not
sure how far along I can go with you on this. Aristotle is considered
the Father of Logic, and he had a worldview completely antithetical
to Biblical Christianity, as did the rest of the Greek philosophers.
Scriptures tell us these are those whom the Apostle Paul opposed
and tore his clothes over people following after these philosophers/
1. Guilt by association. To
say that a person ascribes to everything that the person being
quoted believes is guilt by association. A particular quote is
used because the writer believes that the point that
the person makes is valid in the context of a proposition. And a
quote always has to be read in the context of the proposition
or argument.
RESPONSE:
You appear
to be appealing to a hermeneutic principle rather than a logic
principle "a text out of context is a pretext." Of
course I agree with this hermeneutic principle.
For example,
the entire paragraph that contains one of the Jung quotes you
cite reads: "In contemporary society our Adversary majors
in three things: noise, hurry, and crowds. If he can keep us
engaged in 'muchness' and 'manyness,' he will rest satisfied.
Psychiatrist C. G. Jung once remarked, 'Hurry is not of the
Devil; it is the Devil'" (CELEBRATION
OF DISCIPLINE, 1st edition, p. 13). To say that Richard ascribes
to everything that Carl Jung believed or taught just because
Foster quotes him is ridiculous.
RESPONSE:
Where
did I ever state or imply that Richard Foster ascribes to everything
Carl Jung believed or taught? Where did anyone say this? Please
cite this for me. One does not need to ascribe to everything
a false teacher teaches, only one thing...a little leaven leaveneth
the ENTIRE lump, not part of it! Secondly, the quote you supply
(where Foster quotes Jung) is in itself Biblically (Doctrinally)
unsound. In short, even this quote is a false teaching. Hurry
is not the Devil. The Devil
is the fallen Archangel Lucifer, who tempted Jesus Christ. Once
again, it is astonishing to me once again that you or Richard
Foster, who claims to be a Christian would believe this! And
because Richard Foster believes this and teaches it by quoting
Jung, many more continue to be led astray into unblical teachings.
Consequently,
there is a point where you and Richard Foster do become guilty
by association.
"Bad
company corrupts good morals" I Corinthians 15:33
Was Paul
addressing only the Corinthians? Was the intended audience only
the First Century, or does this apply to us today too? The Biblical
term "morals" refers to both physical and spiritual
practices, as the Book of Proverbs and the Whore of Babylon confirms
in both the Old and New Testaments.
Quoting
from numerous sources to support a position has a long academic
history. In The City of God Augustine quotes
Cicero, Plato, Marcus Varro Apuleius, and others.
John Calvin quotes a wide range of people including Cicero, Homer,
Herodotus, Ovid, Plutarch, Pliny, and Seneca in his Institutes
of the Christian Religion. Even the Apostle Paul
quotes a pagan Greek poet to make a point (Acts
17:28)!
RESPONSE:
And what exactly was the
Apostle Paul's point in quoting a pagan Greek poet? Was it to
applaud them and affirm them to continue in idolotry? Was it
to tell them they could integrate their wonderful philosophy
with Christ? Or, was it not in order to evangelize his audience
and convert them from their pagan Greek philosophies to Christ alone? Obviously,
that was Paul's reason. And even a casual reading of the
Book of Acts would reveal this to you! None of the men you name
above could even contribute one thing to the sanctification of
a Christian for the perfecting of the saints. The Word of God
is clear when it says only the Word of God can do that!
I understand
that you also have been the victim of guilt by association when
your music CDs were distributed and sold in New Age bookstores.
I quote from one of your letters to Mary Fairchild, "You
would not accuse Ken Ham of being in an unholy alliance with
the New Age because New Age outlets sell Ken Ham books. I know
I certainly would not! So
why do you accuse me of being a New Ager for doing precisely
the same thing?"
RESPONSE:
None of my lyrics are New
Age, but either direct Scripture and/or poems which reflect straight
Biblical teachings...not New Age Ideas... and they certainly
were not conceived by Eastern Meditation. Richard Foster's are!
Paul was not "associating" with the Greeks when preaching
in the Forum, HE WAS OPPOSING THEM! (See above my commentary
on William L. Vaswig and Karen Mains.)
And Richard Foster's teachings
are not merely placed on the shelves next
to New Age books, but rather they are contained and
promoted within
his books.
2. Argument from silence. Your statement
that Jesus didn't teach us to appeal to the imagination and senses
is a classic example of an argument from silence and is very
weak. Let me ask you a few questions about the way Jesus taught.
What do you think Jesus is appealing to when he draws word pictures in parables?
Our senses? No, Jesus uses the age-old rhetorical device
of parables over and over and over in which word pictures
dominate. Parables force the hearers to use their
imaginations to make sense of the story. For example, who can
understand the parable of the sower and the seed if they can't
see it in their imaginations? Or the parable of the woman searching
for the lost coin? I could cite as many examples of Jesus' appeal
to the imagination as there are parables in the New Testament.
RESPONSE:
Your contention that my arguing
from Scripture regarding what it says about imagination is very
dangerous waters for you to be treading. What
Scripture says about imagination is what Scripture says about
imagination! This is not an argument from silence
if the Scripture is not silent on the matter, because the Scriptures
are not silent on the matter. Besides this, if you concede Scripture
is silent on the matter of imagination, then why do you give
all of the Scriptural examples of the absence of silence regarding
imagination? I hope you did not get the impression that I think
that ALL imagination is evil....though at the time of Noah's
Flood, EVERY imagination of their heart was only evil continually.
If you re-read all of the
Scriptures that I sent to you, you will see that I am speaking
about vain imaginations or dreams or visions that promote or
teach ideas strictly forbidden in the Bible. Example of such
are: divination, astrology, sorcery, necromancy, pagan ideas,
conjuring up another Jesus, magic arts, imagining evolution.
ALL of which Carl Jung promoted, and he himself was demon-possessed!
And yet, this is the very man whose ideas, practices and teachings
Richard Foster promotes IN OUR CHURCHES. Additionally, Richard
Foster promotes Eastern Mysticism Meditation which a host of
people Richard Foster quotes, practice, and which Richard Foster
practices and promotes. Even if he were not a direct disciple
of any one of the men he quotes, he is a desciple of their very
same practices!
So, my answer to you is really
quite simple. As true believers...as Christian... we are forbidden
from even touching these teachings, let alone practicing or promoting
them in any form of imagination that invokes any of the practices
or techniques that the Bible condemns, whether they be Ouija
Boards, crystal balls, palm reading, astrological chart reading,
pagan based personality profiling, or Eastern Meditation, etc..
With regard to Parables to
mention, are you aware that one of the central themes in Christ's
parables is God's Judgment? Does Comtemplative Prayer, as offered
in your Spiritual Formation Classes or Tilden Edward's Shalem
Institute where William Vaswig that you tout on your website
was trained, warn about the Judgment of God coming upon the earth?
About Jesus'
appealing to the senses, why do you think Jesus used unleavened
bread and wine at The Last Supper? To appeal to our imaginations? No,
it was an act rooted in the body's senses--hearing, smell, touch,
taste, and sight--as were the many times he laid hands on
people to heal them, put mud on the blind man's eyes,
etc.. There are many other examples: "salt of the earth"
appeals to taste, "light of the world" appeals to sight,
"unleavened bread" appeals to taste, Thomas touching
Jesus' wounds appeals to touch, and so on. If you deny
that Jesus taught by appealing to the imagination and senses,
then you discard most of the four Gospels, keeping
only his replies to the questions of the Pharisees and the historical
narratives. As a musician, how do you teach a person to play
the guitar? By describing in words how to strum the
guitar and wrap his fingers around the neck and move his
fingers up and down the fret while pressing on the strings? Or
by having the student feel, see, and hear the instrument
as he is learning to play it? Jesus taught, and continues to
teach through the biblical accounts and his Spirit, the
same way.
RESPONSE:
For you to suggest or imply
that Christ's mission or teaching was to appeal to all of the
human senses and imagination, so as to maximize pleasure and
minimize pain, meet all of the felt needs of the people, is to
deny not just the Four Gospels but the entire New Testament,
as well the Book of Job, and further denies the Apostle Paul's
own words (if you are right) to eat drink and be merry, for tomorrow
we die (assuming you are right that Christ was appealing to and
satisfying our senses). God forbid! Jesus Christ's own words
regarding seeing does not sound anything like what you have in
mind for the senses:
"For all that [is] in
the world, the lust of the flesh, and the
lust of the eyes, and the pride of life,
is not of the Father,
but is of the world." I John 2:16
Regarding your reference
to the Lord healing the man's blindness, would you like to talk
about "context" one more time? The main thrust of that
passage was to reveal that it was those who think they can see
that are the ones who are really blind. But seeing the truth
is the opposite of what Eastern mediation will bring you, which
is spiritual blindness!
Your version of the Gospel
(which is really "another gospel" and "another
Jesus") does violence to the Book of James, Hebrews 11:36-38,
by insulting every present and past persecuted and martyred saint,
of whom this world was not worthy. Your touchy feely gospel is
exactly what doubting Thomas required vs. Christ blessing those
who had faith who NEVER saw, felt, tasted, smelled, or had their
senses appealed to. Yes they did hear, but that is what the Scripture
teaches is necessary for conversion (faith cometh by hearing).
But your gospel is the tickling of the ears kind of hearing by
those with itchy ears, and this all promotes mysticism, gnosticism,
and the occult ideas of Carl Jung that Second Timothy warns against.
And by the way, unleavened
bread was not used to enhance taste. (If anything it did not
taste as good.) The use of unleavened bread was to remind them
of the slavery they came out of in Egypt. Even the Manna in the
Wilderness did not have the taste the Israelites were accustomed
to in Egypt. As you may recall, this was one of the reasons they
murmured in the Wilderness, and God judged them for murmuring
and complaining.
No, the gospel you are promoting
just another spin on the appeal of the Church Growth Movement,
which also promotes Richard Foster, as does Rick Warren via his
toolbox to pastors.
3. Appeal
to Emotion. This
logical fallacy masks many spurious arguments. We appeal
to a person's emotions and then statements that do not stand
tests of logic, accuracy, and truthfulness slip by unnoticed. This
is frequently done when the question being debated is
very emotional or elicits strong emotions, such as the debate
over abortion or "keeping the faith pure".
RESPONSE:
Where did I appeal to emotion
to you? Where did you get that idea? My appeals are all based
on reasoning from Scripture. You are not suggesting that abortion
is an option for a Christian are you? We test everything with
Scripture...not emotion...including spirits such as "Philemon"
of which Carl Jung was possessed!
4. False
Disjunction, e.g.
the only kind of "centering down"
is New Age "centering down". This ignores the rich
history of centering down in the Church, and the fact that
practices from many religions including centering down have
been co-opted by the New Age movement. In conjunction with this,
one huge mistake many people make is to take our present knowledge
of the New Age movement and read it into books and teachings
prior to its inception. In doing this, they can declare that
people who lived decades, and sometimes centuries ago, taught
New Age beliefs.
RESPONSE:
Once again I do not recall
ever saying that all centering down is "New Age" centering
down. I can center down to do my homework, center down to practice
my guitar. I can say that Christ is the center of my life, so
thinking about him and praying to him could be argued to mean
that I am centering down. Additionally, what other religions
do with regard to centering down (as you stated above), is totally
irrelevant to Christianity, regardless of whether or not the
New Age Movement has co-opted this practice. As true believers
we are do obey the Word of God only and not incorporate the beliefs
and practices of all other religions, because they are not of
God! Why
Richard Foster's version is New Age is not a false disjunction
is that he employs and prescribes identical techniques to what
the New Age employs such as vain repetitions, Ashtanga Yoga,
Kundalini, and Buddhist prayers at Quaker gatherings that I can
document. In quote after quote, Richard Foster gives accolades
to promoters and practioners of Eastern Mysticism and Meditation
which mirror his own views. There is not even anything to mask
what he is doing. Secondly, you are not even historically accurate.
Though the New Age term itself might be recent, the beliefs and
practices the term refers to, go back to the Garden of Eden.
All New Age beliefs, each and every religion,
have at their very foundations the lies of Satan, which are always,
always, always to take away from the Deity of Christ and the
Word of God. Their beliefs stem from the Fall of Adam, and later
from the Tower of Babel, and Babylon. Even
at the time of Christ, Jesus himself commanded us NOT to pray
as the heathens do with vain repetitions (such as breath mantras).
Here is the direct commandment of our Lord himself:
"But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions,
as the heathen [do]: for they think that they shall be heard
for their much speaking." Matthew 6:7 KJV
So if the Lord does not hear
these kind of prayers, who are we really praying to? What possibly
God ordained purpose could they have?
And yet what do we find Richard
Foster recommending in his book Spiritual Classics?
Richard Foster states:
"Practice lectio devina
by taking a Bible text that you love, reading it over attentively,
then entering into prayer through a single word or phrase."
p.35 "Why does this little prayer of one syllable pierce
the heavens?" p. 45 (Source: Richard Foster, Spiritual Classics,
p. 35, p.45)
Jesus Christ said that if
you want to be his disciple, you must obey him. So how is praying
with vain repetitions and repeating a single word or phrase over
and over obeying Christ, when he gave specific instructions which
forbade it?
Your version of centering
down and imagination does not even fit the Biblical meaning of
meditation, but is, in fact, the opposite. Richard Foster's idea
of meditation is to imagine the loins of your mind to be let
down and relaxed that anything might enter. Here is the proof:
Richard Foster in his book,
Prayer: Finding
the Heart's True Home, speaks of the practice
of "breath prayer," in which a Christian-sounding word
or phrase is repeated over and over again like a mantra. Foster
wrote that "Christian
meditation is an attempt to empty the mind in order to fill it"
(Ray Yungen, Time
of Departing, Lighthouse Trails Publishing, 2002,
pg. 72). But fill it with what? This "breath prayer"
idea has gained popularity in charismatic circles that frequently
sing of "breathing in Jesus" or variations thereof.
(SOURCE: Jacki Alnor, Christian Sentinel,
April 2003. Richard Foster quote taken from
Richard Foster, Celebration of Discipline,
Harper & Row Pub., San Francisco, CA 1978, p. 15.)
This is precisely the technique
that lets demons enter a person. But we are to be circumspect
which is what a night watchman is, as this literally means having
eyes all around our head to guard against imaginations and seducing
spirits that would love to enter us.
The Apostle Paul commands
us to "gird up the loins of our minds," not let them
down, not empty our minds.
We are to put on the helmet
of salvation to protect our minds, as well as the shield of faith
that we might ward off the fiery darts of the enemy from penetrating
that part of our armor. One girds up the loins of their mind
for war, as that is precisely what we are in...a spiritual war.
Any good soldier girds up his or her mind when he or she stands
guard on a night watch. I know this first hand because I used
to stand guard in four-hour shifts at night over missile batteries
in the U.S. Army in West Germany. Emptying your mind and/or falling
a sleep on guard duty would get you court-marshalled. You had
to be vigilant and constantly alert, i.e., we are to have the
loins of your mind girded up...not let down! Succinctly, we are
to have the mind of Christ....not mindlessness!
This is perfectly consistent
with what the Apostle Paul further tells us:
"Be
sober and be vigilant; because your
adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking
whom he may devour" I Peter 5:8
How can a Christian be ever
vigilant and sober within his mind, if he is spending a lot of
time emptying his mind by practicing any
type of meditation which is the direct opposite of Biblical meditation?
For one of the very best
Scripture passages on the context and real meaning of what the
Bible teaches about "meditation," read the entirety
of Psalm 119, where you will find the word "meditate"
time and time again.
You want context? The entire
passage uses the word "meditate" to describe the author's
intent to meditate on the statutes, laws, and decrees of the
Lord, that the author might not sin against God. Now traditionally,
the "centering down" form of meditation promoted by
Richard Foster involves CLOSING the eyes. Well let's see what
the writer in Psalm 119 thinks about that. In Psalm 119:148 we
read:
"My eyes stay open
through the watches of the night, that I may meditate on your
promises." Psalm 119:148 NIV
When Jesus was praying in
the Garden of Gethsemane, he rebuked his Disciples for NOT keeping
their eyes open, for he wanted them to WATCH and PRAY (Mark 14:38)
WITH HIM. Let's take an even closer look at what Jesus had in
mind in terms of how he prayed (the highest form of meditation
which is to "watch" and "pray") in the Garden
of Gethsemane. Jesus Christ's idea of how to pray was to resist
temptation to the sweating of drops of blood. No human besides
Christ has ever accomplished this feat. Nevertheless, Christ
our Lord does set an example of what should be taking place during
our praying. This kind of praying has nothing in common with
techniques or purpose of praying for Eastern Meditation or any
other religion. Christ's method of praying has nothing in common
with Richard Foster's revised definition of meditation or "centering
down." Jesus Christ gave even more instructions when his
disciples asked him how to pray. The Lord gives them (and us)
instructions on how to pray when he gives us the Lords' Prayer.
Once again, he gives us no instructions which resemble "centering
down" meditation. This prayer is a petition and requires
the mind to be fully engaged, not unplugged. Finally, it tells
us to appeal to the Lord to protect us from the Evil One
(i.e., Satan). Eastern Meditation REMOVES the protection to let
the Evil One IN to our minds.
Just prior to this, Jesus
had lifted up his OPEN eyes to the Heavens to pray...not close
them when he raised Lazarus.
"Then they took away
the stone [from the place] where the dead was laid. And Jesus
lifted up [his] eyes, and
said, Father, I thank thee that thou hast heard me." John
11:41 KJV
So we don't even see Jesus
praying or instructing us how to pray or meditate like anything
even resembling Eastern Meditation or Richard Foster's version
of meditation.
Again the Apostle Paul says:
"Finally, brethren,
whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things [are] honest, whatsoever
things [are] just, whatsoever things [are] pure,
whatsoever things [are] lovely, whatsoever
things [are] of good report; if [there be] any virtue,
and if [there be] any praise, think on these things." Philippians
4:8 KVJ
With the
mind of Christ, this is the kind of thinking or meditation we
should be practicing. What is pure
or commendable about Carl Jung's practice of divination or the
complete balance of his theory of the subconscious, which he
believed came from what we possessed in our subconscious as animals
before we became human (thus totally denying the creation of
man directly from the dust by a Sovereign Creator) ?
What is of good report of
Carl Jung?
What is noble about his personality
theory, which he also drew from paganism and a spirit-guide that
possessed him? Are not these things clearly abhorred by both
Jesus Christ and the Apostle Paul? We are to flee these
things, not embrace, promote them and feed them to God's children.
You want to call your kind
of meditation Biblical. But I challenge you to go through the
entire Old and New Testaments and do a word search for the word
"meditate" or "meditation", and look it up
in the Hebrew and the Greek (as you did with the word "you"
in the New Testament). You will not find one instance or precedent
for the word meaning anything close to your revisionist definition.
You will not find a precedent for it. You will not find an example
of Jesus Christ or any of the Apostles practicing it or recommending
it. But you will find it practiced and promoted in
Eastern Meditation and the New Age Movement.
Finally, the New Age Movement
did not borrow or hijack centering down from Christianity. Though
not under the same name, the practice is as ancient as Babylon
and the Tower of Babel. And the Tower of Babel was constructed
because of the same lie Satan used in the Garden of Eden, "You
shall be as God."
When you say "church"
you mean Roman Catholicism and the Carmelite Order traditions.
But Roman Catholicism is both pagan and apostate. Indeed,
your version of centering down indeed matastesized into the Church
and spread spiritual death into the Church, just as various forms
of cancer metastasize in the organs of the human body, eventually
causing physical death. Your form of "centering down"
is also rooted in the Church's first and tragically on-going
heresy, Gnosticism.
Despite what you believe
and stated above, centering down has no rich history or
even existence in the TRUE CHURCH. For you to claim that New
Age beliefs are only recent, reveals a tragic lack of knowledge
of both history and Scripture. As the prophet Hosea declares:
"My people are destroyed
for lack of knowledge: because thou hast
rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt
be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy
God, I will also forget thy children." Hosea 4:6 KJV
5. General
Assumption. To
say that Richard Foster admires Thomas Merton because he quotes
him is an assumption you have drawn, not a verifiable fact.
RESPONSE:
It is absolutely astounding
to me that you would make this statement with all of the Merton
quotes Richard Foster has in his book. One does not have to assume
what a person clearly states and publishes. Here is a quote from
Richard Foster, quoting Thomas Merton:
"...offers you an understanding
and light which are like nothing ever found in books or heard
in sermons"
Richard Foster further says
of Thomas Merton:
"Thomas Merton has perhaps
done more than any other twentieth-century figure to make the
life of prayer widely known and understood." Foster considers
Merton's book, Contemplative Prayer, "a must book".
He also states, "Merton continues to inspired countless
men and women," and credits his books as being filled with
priceless wisdom for all Christian who long to go deeper in the
spiritual life." SOURCE: A TIME OF DEPARTING,
Ray Yungen, Trailhouse Trails Publishing Company, 2002. These
quotes were drawn from Richard Foster's books: Devotional Classics
and
Meditative Prayer.
And this
is not admiring Thomas Merton? If note, I would surely be curious
to know what a good example would be, by your own definition!
If this is not enough, Richard Foster lavishes
praise on a host of other authors and teachers who share very
similar views to Thomas Merton. Even if Richard Foster does not
technically use the word "admire" then proceeds to
lace his commentary with one complement after another, what reader
could come away with any other conclusion? What your comment
clearly shows me is that you are doing nothing more than parsing
at words and straining at gnats, while you swallow the camel
of ideas that clearly oppose Biblical Christianity. Richard Foster
clearly shows support for Thomas Merton, William L. Vaswig and
Karen Mains, in spite of your trying to distance yourself from
them.
THEOLOGICAL ISSUE
1. By
citing all of the biblical verses that connect the imagination
with evil, are you saying that the imagination that you use in
composing and arranging music is evil? You, along with every
other person in the arts uses the imagination in the
creation of their pieces whether sculpture, music, paintings,
poems, and more. Inventors use their imaginations to create
new products. Seamstresses use their imagination to buy material
for a new garment. Children use their imaginations during play.
As you have tried to explain, the Bible is key to understanding
the influence of evil upon the imagination. The Old Testament
does connect the imagination with evil, but the verses you
cite are descriptive of people with unregenerated
imaginations. From the Fall until Jesus' birth, life, death,
and resurrection through today, evil imaginations--along with
evil hearts and evil actions--describe the predicament
of the human race. But Jesus Christ provides a way out of the
predicament. Think with me a little. What does Jesus
Christ redeem when we accept him as Savior? Just our spirits? Our
souls? Our minds with its imaginations?
RESPONSE:
I address the question of
imagination in earlier paragraphs. Regarding the Old Testament,
being unregenerated was not describing some people but everyone
who did not fear the Lord (which was most people). And except
for Noah and his family, it was everyone who drowned in the Flood.
But just because we have regenerated minds and imaginations does
not give us license to use our imaginations to practice the very
things we practiced with unregenerated minds, i.e., eastern meditation,
vain repetition chants or mantras, your meaning of centering,
etc.; or promote teachers who do practice these magic arts, such
as Carl Jung and many others. If you want to know what we are
to practice, then read what the Bible says about sanctification
and Sound Doctrine and the narratives of how they REALLY meditated!
And by the way, the New Testament connects imagination to evil
too (see the verses I already sent you), such as the verse:
"(For the weapons of
our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling
down of strong holds;) Casting down imaginations,
and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge
of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience
of Christ;" 2 Corinthians 10:4-5,
Our bodies?
This is the message of the birth, life, death, and resurrection
of the fully human Jesus Christ described in the New Testament:
that he bought and paid for our whole beings--hearts, minds,
bodies, souls, and spirits. Of course, a Christian's mind and
imagination can be used to ill purposes. The verse you quote,
2 Corinthians 10:5, makes this very point. As regenerated
humans (Christians) we are to bring every THOUGHT into
obedience to Christ. This would be impossible if our minds with
its imaginations were excluded from the process of redemption
and sanctification. Taken to its logical conclusion, to say that
all imagination is evil is to declare your own musical
compositions evil.
RESPONSE:
If as you properly quote
that we are to bring every thought into the obedience of Christ,
then what place does DISOBEYING Christ by engaging in magic arts
or quoting and promoting them that do?
EXEGETICAL ISSUES
1. Quoting
out of context. This
is a common mistake made by people trying to support their
position. When reading Scripture we must first determine
several things: its historical context (when was it written?),
its cultural context (to whom was it written?), its redemptive
context (at what stage in revelation was this written?), its
author (who wrote it?), its purpose (why was it written?), its
literary context (what type of literature is this?), its provenance
(where was it written?) to name a few. Once we answer these questions, we
can start to understand particular verses or sections of Scripture.
And I say "start" because as citizens of
the 21st century we can never
fully understand the entire context of Scripture written
by the authors of the New Testament, much less that written by
Moses and David!
RESPONSE:
Can't be understood huh?
Is that what the Apostle Paul meant when he said:
"For the invisible things
of him from the creation of the world are clearly
seen, being understood
by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead;
so that they are without excuse:"
Romans 1:20
Is that what the Apostle
Paul meant when he said:
"For
we do not write you anything you can not read or understand"
2 Corinthians 2:13 NIV
As that what the Apostle
John meant when he said:
"My little children,
these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man
sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:"
I John 2:1
Now if they could not "fully
understand the entire context" of what John was saying,
how would they understand how NOT to sin? Jesus Christ and the
Apostle spend extensive discourse in warning about deception
and false teaching. And with reference to the Last Days prophecies,
they devote MORE text to deception (in the Church). If the Word
is not clear or easily understood, how would we know how and
when we are deceived?
We must
always remember that God's revelation of his purposes in
history is "progressive". In other words, God reveals
his plan for the redemption of humanity after the Fall a little
bit at a time: through the life of Abraham and Sarah and their
family, the Law, the nation of Israel, and so on. Determining
the context of Scripture helps us avoid applying those Scriptures
to our lives that aren't meant for us.
RESPONSE:
Are you
suggesting that we don't need to flee from divination, astrology,
paganism, necromancy, sorcery, mindless vain repetition prayers,
centering down, magic arts just as much today and repent from
practicing them just as much as in the time the Scriptures are
recorded? That there are changes in the faith once and for all
delivered to the Apostles that we are to no longer contend for?
Paul warned the First Century Church about teaching things that
ought not to be taught in his First Letter to Timothy then tells
us the Second Letter to Timothy these very same doctrines of
demons and seducing spirits, alive and well in the First Century,
would visit us again in the Last Days. Both Isaiah and the Apostle
Paul warn us that deception and wickedness would wax worse and
worse. These warnings are clearly just as much for us today as
believers. Finally, if you are so wary about what Scriptures
say regarding false teaching and church discipline apply to us
today, what hermeutical principles that you list did you use
to determine that your version of meditation is even for today?
For example,
who among Christians would
contend that we need to keep all of the Levitical laws and traditions?
No one. They weren't written for that purpose. They
were addressed to a particular people for a particular purpose
in a particular time. As Christians we are to view the Mosaic
Law as fulfilled in Jesus Christ and, as Paul writes to the church
in Galatia, as "our tutor to lead us to Christ"
(Gal. 3:24).
RESPONSE:
While there are some Christians
today who attempt to keep Levitical laws and traditions (such
as Seventh Day Adventists and some sects of Messianic Fellowships),
we know that we are free from the legality of the Mosaic Law
because of Christ's fulfillment. For that matter it was impossible
to keep all the laws....no one ever did that...even at the time
of the Levitical Priesthood. As you stated, the Scriptures clearly
teach that Christ is the fulfillment of the Mosaic Law. However,
there is nowhere in Scripture that we are given permission, however,
to practice the meditative techniques that Richard Foster is
promoting. "Days and diets" are negotiable, but doctrine
and morals are essentials which do not have an expiration date.
It is extremely ironic that
you would quote Galatians in which Paul tells the Galatian Church
that if anyone preach another gospel than what he first preached
let him be eternally damned. Or are you going to tell me that
this letter was intended only for the Galatians and only for
the First Century, or to use your words: "for a particular
purpose in a particular time?" No, once we are led to Christ,
we cannot go back to the same practices we were delivered from.
The same practices of magic arts that Jesus Christ himself declares
in Revelation that no one who practices them will have a place
inside of the New Jerusalem. If the magic arts are condemned
in the First Century, and they are condemned up to the Last Days,
how are they then acceptable practices in between, during the
last two thousand years? Paul also said that his letters should
be read to the other churches. So I guess that would mean they
apply to them too!
How useful is your long list
of hermeneutical questions, if in the end in your words: "as
citizens of the 21st century we can never fully understand
the context of Scripture?" For the answers are fundamentally
unknowable according to your argument. Yet you promote the idea
that "meditation" is not only acceptable in the 21st
Century, it is valuable to know God better. How did you determine
that is for the 21st Century, for even after employing
your schematic of hermeneutics, we are still not able to fully
understand the context? How do you know, as you put it, that
meditation is not just for a certain time and place in history?
Well of course meditation is also for today, but that is Biblical
meditation, not Eastern meditation.
Now why didn't you apply
your hermeneutics principles to the word "meditate"
to find out what it really meant and its context throughout the
Bible, before you use your imagination to interpret what the
word means? Or
worse, revise the meaning to allow you to imagine things for
which there is no Biblical precedent or injunction to do so!
You tout Biblical hermeneutics yet use revisionist exegesis and
isagesis to force meaning into and out of the word that it NEVER
possessed. You want me to use hermeneutics, something you think
I fail to use properly or even understand? Well here is what
the Contemplative Prayer Movement, Mysticism, and Gnosticism
has done to the word meditate. This principle in hermeneutics
is called "unwarranted expansion of a grammatical field".
Or to put in in laymen's terms "using your imagination to
invent a meaning and context of a word that is without justification."
And here is another principle, or should I say actual Scripture
that bears on this very subject:
"Above all, you must
understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's
own interpretation. For prophecy never had its origin in the
will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along
by the Holy Spirit. But there were also false prophets among
the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They
will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the
sovereign Lord who bought them bringing swift destruction on
themselves. 2 Peter 1:20 2:1 NIV
By the way, Peter also warned,
along with Jesus Christ, that the Last Days would be just like
in the Days of Noah....same sins...same false teaching. Nothing
new under the sun, as Solomon said!
2. Proof
Texting. This
is another common mistake people make when trying to
prove an argument from Scripture. I've already dealt with
the fact that all except one of the verses you cite to prove
that the imagination is evil are from the Old Testament and refer
to the unregenerate person.
RESPONSE:
Well you
repeat the same error....that evil imagination refers primarily
to the Old Testament (see reference above which proves it is
in the New Testament too!). The nature of man has not changed
since the Fall of Adam. What are your saying? Even if there were
only one Scripture in the New Testament in reference to imagination,
that is all it takes to make it true. The word Trinity isn't
even in there at all, but its concept is all through both Testaments
and is a pillar of Orthodox Christianity!
About the
false teaching verses, of course there are false teachers. But who is to ferret them out and reprove
them? The individual? The pastor? The gathered congregation?
The Church? Reading the verses that you copied leaves
the impression that individuals are to find and expose false
teachers, but it is very clear from Scripture that anyone
who is preaching false doctrine or bringing disgrace to the gathered
community is to be exposed and disciplined in the midst
of the body of Christ.
RESPONSE:
The answer
to who ferrets our false teachers? Every Christian!
We forfeited the right to remain silent the day we became Christians.
Now at some point it may be only the elders who have the judicial
or employer authority to actually fire or excommunicate such
a false teacher. But any Christian can and should endeavor to
identify them....based on all of the Scriptures I cited and sent
to you earlier.
All false teachers and false
prophets need to be identified and opposed. And I am sure
that we both agree that no one is to bring an accusation against
an elder without the testimony of two or more. A host of
discernment ministries around the world have already done this
regarding Richard Foster (I will cite them at the end of this
document). I also would like to submit that there are really
four stages regarding "who" should do what regarding
false teachers. They are: 1. Identifying, 2. Labeling (marking)
3. Disciplining, and 4. Restoration (if possible).
Stage One: Identifying False Teachers
It is the responsibility of every Christian to identify false
teaching and false prophecies. Scriptural proof: Paul commending
the Bereans, Paul's open door to every Christian in Galatians,
Paul's commandment in Ephesians Chapter 5 to expose all deeds
of darkness, Paul's commandment as to whom to not even allow
in your door (this would have to be every Christian....at their
homes....not at the church). Every Christian has this right and
commandment even. Reason: it is the heart of the Great
Commission. Any time you say that Jesus Christ is the only
way to Salvation and Heaven you are simultaneously saying that
anyone who teaches anything else is a false teacher. Anytime
you say that whoever does not believe in Jesus Christ is condemned
to Eternal Hell and suffering. So you are simultaneously
saying that whoever does not teach that is a false teacher. Nothing
hard about this, John 3:16-17 will tell you this. And if they
deny that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh you are saying even
more than that they are a false teacher, they are an antichrist,
according to the Apostle John. So the list just keeps getting
longer as any Christian who can identify a teaching which does
not line up with the Doctrine of the Apostles and the Faith Once
and for all Delivered to the Saints.
Stage Two: Labeling (Marking) False
Teachers
Matthew 18 gives no restrictions among Christians as to who can
label, no restrictions in Ephesians 5, no restrictions in testing
the spirits. And there are no restrictions on who can mark
them that causing division. Now there is an added ability by
those who have the Gift of Discerning of Spirits. And there
is added ability and authority for elders who need to be equipped
to identify false teachers and prophets. Paul's Second
letter to the Thessalonians (everyone) speaks of not associating
with any who do not obey the instructions in this letter....so
any Christian can label such a person. Contending for the faith
is for all believers. Note in this verse where Paul is
addressing the brethren (plural)....not just the elders...but
the whole church....no community gathering is implied to be necessary:
"Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which
cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye
have learned; and avoid them. For they that are such serve
not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words
and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple." (Rom
16:17-18)
A further note on labeling false teachers. In many cases,
we don't even have to investigate or get two or more witness
because many of these false teachers are self-labeled.
Their own testimony and teaching is already public record, for
all to read. So it is not a matter of determining whether
it is true or secret. Their own testimony condemns themselves.
So it is only responsible for every Christian to declare and
warn everyone about such teachers. Now on the other hand
if their false teaching is only suspected and not already proven
by being in print, and is only hearsay, a Christian who
then labels that teacher as a false teacher (without proof) would
be guilty of all sorts of sins: gossip, bearing false witness
against a brother, slander, sowing strife among the brethren,
etc.
Finally, and this is very
important, there are false teachers who are clearly not Christians
and there are those who either are Christians or profess that
they are. If a pastor or teacher teaches false teaching, they
are not immediately labelled or marked as false teachers....we
all make mistakes. IT is only if they refuse correction, and
ONLY after a second warning do you have the right to call them
a false teacher. Peter promoted some false teachings, but would
not be considered a false teacher because he repented. Richard
Foster has been warned at least twice and still refuses to repent,
so any Christian is perfectly within their rights to label or
mark him as a false teacher and warn anyone considering his books
or any church considering inviting him to speak. Here is the
Biblical authority for you to take this action:
"A
man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition
reject; Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth,
being condemned of himself." Titus 3:10-11
Stage
Three: Disciplining False Teachers
Now here is where I think WHO becomes very important. Only
the Elders in the Church really have the power to remove such
a false teacher, or to at least silence him or her IN THAT PARTICULAR
LOCAL CONGREGATION. But in many cases, such a false teacher
would have been in someone else's church. It is rather
difficult if not practically impossible to remove or silence
such a teacher in another man's church. But you can certainly
warn your own congregation and other congregations. In
probably most cases false teachers lead congregations that have
all already "drunk the coolaid" and would never oppose
or remove their teacher. They would only oppose all who
would dare speak against him. The church really does not have
a mechanism to discipline all of the false teacher authors in
the marketplace. But we all can speak out against them,
write our own articles and books, support discernment ministries
that do. I reiterate and agree that as a whole, a lone
voice can't speak out. But if a priest falsely teaches
a confessioner that it is good to have relations with the young
altar boy, I hope this lone voice shouts it from the rooftops!
Sadly a host did not, for many years, so the problem became an
epidemic. The Bible is as much concerned about spiritual
harlotry as it is literal harlotry. If I were a murderer
or rapist and thought I could get away with it simply by assuring
that there never would be the testimony of two or more, to convict
me, I would surely make sure there was never two or more witnesses
every time I wanted to murder someone. We have to be very
careful with that Scripture. Now, regarding the names I
mentioned in my document as false teachers. I can
assure you that I am not a lone voice. There are a great
number of pastors and discernment ministries who have made the
same discoveries about Richard Foster and many others like him.
But this is not rocket science. Any Christian can get and
read these false teacher's books, articles, hear and view their
own tapes and then line up their teachings themselves with the
Canon of Scripture. It is a big difference when these teachers
have published their material. I don't need any governing
body around to make a ruling to warn everyone about a person
who teaches that the Trinity is Nine, such as what Benny Hinn
taught. And the fact is that Church Discipline is now almost
extinct. The churches that do have authority where the
false teacher is a member rarely take any action, because they
all believe the false teaching themselves. So it is up
to the rest of us to mark them.
Stage Four (Restoration) of
False Teachers
Of course the desired goal is that the false teacher repent and
be restored to the congregation, not necessarily the pulpit.
Elders can make this official. But all of the church can
love and encourage a repentant false teacher. Now if such
a false teacher is published, there would seem to be some need
to make restitution or publish recantations to all they have
caused to stumble. The Book of Philemon is one of the best
examples of restoration of a believer (Paul's plea for Onesimus).
But I can't think of one example in the Bible where a false teacher
repented and was restored to the pulpit. The Apostle Peter would
not qualify, for he never was removed from being an elder or
Apostle. It never became necessary because he repented. Richard
Foster has not..
A few more words on lone
voice speaking out against spiritual or literal harlotry.
If you have a situation in a church that even the Apostle Paul
encountered when he records: A few more words on lone voice speaking
out against spiritual or literal harlotry. If you have
a situation in a church that even the Apostle Paul encountered
when he records:
I speak to your shame. Is
it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that
shall be able to judge between his brethren? I
Corinthians 6:5
In such a scenario, you may
have only one lone voice who is wise and discerning. Should
this lone voice then remain silent because he is the only voice?
You may end up without even one wise among that local church.
But another church or another lone voice may exist who is wise
and discerning. Should that person speak out, even though
he is the lone voice? When Jesus asked when he returns will he
find faith on the earth, wouldn't this imply a great falling
away to the point that in many cities and churches you may very
well only have one lone voice, or have to look elsewhere for
one. Now of course it is much better if there is more than
one voice and the testimony of two or more. But if there is not
do we still remain silent?
Jesus instructs
when a person sins, to go to that person in private first. Then, if there is still a problem, bring
one or two other people to the table of discussion. If that doesn't
solve the issue, then it is to be brought before the congregation
(Matt. 18:15-17).
RESPONSE:
This is primarily referring
to a private matter between two Christians, it is not PRIMARILY
addressing false teaching, though I believe Matthew 18 should
also be invoked early on before the person being confronted has
had a chance to spread his false gospel or teaching. But if that
has already happened, it is too late for Matthew 18, at least
in the sense of two individual parties resolving the offense
just between the two of them, very simply because it is no longer
private. And even then, it is not as though you can settle the
matter as though it were a property dispute. The teaching is
either true or it is false! If you are interested in the view
of virtual every Conservative Scholar on this text who invoke
the principles of hermeneutics that you so devoutly espouse,
they confirm this to be so. Now I am surprised you would invoke
Matthew 18 to me, for this is exactly what I have done in approaching
Richard Foster. So why am I not talking to Richard Foster? If
Richard Foster believes this passage, why isn't he responding
to my further concerns and emails regarding his teaching? Why
are you declaring that Richard Foster refuses to respond to the
letter from Ray Yungen, who very diplomatically appealed to you
to repent of your teaching, so that they could both implement
Matthew 18? How is Richard Foster able to go the altar to bring
a sacrifice without first making things right with his brother
Ray Yungen, according to Scripture??
The Epistles contain
guidance on many issues that congregations face as
a body, including blatant sin and teaching false doctrine, and
how to deal with them. Most of the pastoral and general
epistles were written to either the pastor of a congregation
or a congregation. I have gone through many of them
in the Greek to find out whether the "you" in the
Pastoral Epistles or the number in nouns and verbs
is singular or plural. In almost every instance, they are
plural. The exceptions include instruction
to a particular pastor on how to deal with a situation
in a church or personal advice, e.g. when Paul tells Timothy
to drink a little wine for his stomach! When read in
the plural, these books take on a whole different life and
it changes their perspectives, particularly on issues
of practice and discipline (see 1 Corinthians 5:1-12 which is
written in the plural.)
RESPONSE:
Of course there are a host
of directions to you (plural) in Greek. But what did you expect
Paul to do, name each person one by one and give him the exact
same instructions? This would be absurd! No each person as part
of the plural you were expected to also comply with Paul's instructions
unless, specifically he was identifying one individual with an
instruction.
As an example, there is a
record of the Roman Catholic Pope kissing the Koran as a sign
of ecumenism. Am I not to warn anyone that he is a false teacher
until I go to him privately? Islam is responsible for more shed
blood of the saints than any religion in history, rivaled only
by Roman Catholicism, Islam's fellow daughter of Babylon. Are
you suggesting that I must go through the Church Discipline procedure
to silence the Pope? The Catholic Church would not even allow
such a procedure. But it sure would be wonderful if the Church
did exercise church discipline with people like this. Unfortunately,
it is swiftly becoming a dinosaur (see points above where I enumerate
Biblical options for who can name false teachers). I am all for
Matthew 18 and I Corinthians 5:1-12. But if a teacher such as
Richard Foster has already published his teachings, then the
privacy component is no longer even possible, as it is obliterated
by the teacher himself making his teaching public. And if the
Church fails to act, we must still warn the rest of the Body
of Christ.
This reinforces
my previous point: we always place
a verse in its larger context before we determine
what it says to us and the Church today. To
use several Scriptures as proof texts does violence
to those verses by cutting them from their contexts, thus presenting
a hodge podge of guidance and instruction. (The
classic joke about proof texting goes something like this: A
man was having trouble in his life and in trying to decide what
to do he consults the Scriptures. So he balances the Bible on
its spine and removes his hands. When the Bible falls
open, he reads the first passage that his eyes fall on, "Judas
went out and hanged himself." Since he had decided to do the
exercise several times until he got clear instruction, he again
balances the Bible on its spine, letting it fall open. The
next time he reads, "Go and do likewise"!)
RESPONSE:
I address context at length
in previous paragraphs. There is no context in the Church today
where divination, summoning up spirits, Eastern Meditation (opposite
of Biblical meditation) is allowed.
This brings
us back to where we started. As you propose, is Richard
Foster misleading people because he quotes Carl Jung? No.
Could he have found another person to quote? Maybe. Do the quotes
he uses from Carl Jung strengthen Foster's argument? Yes. Even
though Jung may not have been an orthodox Christian, he
recognized that the Devil can lead us astray through busyness
and that all adults need to regain the imaginations they lost
as their parents "civilized" them.
Again I address Carl Jung
extensively above and why he should not be given any credence.
He particularly should not be quoted because he is one possessed
by a demon, one of Satan's fallen angels. Jung and Biblical Christianity
don't even share the same understanding of who the Devil is!
So Christians should not gain or regain false visions that Satan
would love to give them.
(Is it
possible that great inventors and creative artists are
unique because they never lost their God-given, childhood
imaginations?) Should Foster declare Thomas Merton a false teacher?
No.
RESPONSE:
I must beseech you to tell
you that is not Biblically correct! Particularly as you point
out, Richard Foster has his Phd in Pastoral Theology. Pastor
is another word for Overseer. And what does the Bible say about
his responsibility? Elders have a greater responsibility and
a stricter accounting being teachers. So, yes, Richard Foster
should declare Thomas Merton a false teacher! Better yet, Richard
Foster should do so from a position of repentance for his own
false teaching.
Here is just one Scriptural
passage to verify that pastors do need to declare who is a false
teacher:
"Since an overseer is
entrusted with God's work, he must....refute those who oppose
it....they must be silenced because they are ruining whole households."
Titus 1: 7-11 NIV
This is
the responsibility of the gathered community.
RESPONSE:
What gathered community?
Do you mean the Church? Martin Luther did not bring the gathered
community together to confront the Catholic Church. He was the
lone voice, at first. But he was the one on trial. So was Martin
Luther to remain silent until he could recruit more that agree
with him? Indeed the local Church should ultimately act. But
if it won't that does not mean we (the rest of the Body of Christ)
should be silent. And who is going to gather together in a community
to identify Robert Schuller as a false teacher? There may never
be such a "gathered community." The Apostle Paul identified
a number of false teachers without the community even gathering.
One more
comment. The verse you quote, Romans 16:7, "Now I beseech
you, brethren (plural), mark them which cause divisions and offences
contrary to the doctrine which ye (plural) have learned; and
avoid them" was written by Paul to the Roman church--a
church meeting in homes scattered throughout the city--that needed
vital instruction on how to deal with people who were teaching
and doing things contrary to his teaching. This
verse was not written to give individuals authority
to search out anyone they think is a false teacher or a heretic
or worse and then write an "expose" about that
person in a book or on the web.
Today
is the first time in Church history when individuals have
self-appointed themselves to hunt out people they have determined
are unorthodox and pursue them relentlessly through various
mass media until their reputations and ministries are ruined.
According to the guidelines given
to us by Jesus and the Epistles, today's self-appointed heresy
hunters are operating outside the biblical and historical Church.
RESPONSE:
This is so absurd I can not
even believe I am reading this. Millions of individuals throughout
the history of the Church have been running for their lives because
they dared to speak the truth about heresy after heresy. Countless
persecuted and martyred saint's blood cries out from the ground.
These people had but to remain silent, as you suggest. But thank
God they did not. You need to read Fox's Book of Martyrs just
for starters, then repent for having made such an irresponsible
statement. The Roman Catholic Church, which you embrace in your
ecumenical Renovare organization, hunted down true Christians
and burned them at the stake. The Roman Catholic Church were
heretic hunters, but they were the true heretics. If you are
so passionately opposed to heretic hunters, then who don't you
oppose the organization that is responsible for the death of
more saints than any organization in history? Regarding Richard
Foster, I did not have to hunt him down. The aroma of his teaching
is in the air conditioning systems of thousands of churches and
is coming out of the pores of where I have witnessed the saturation
of Carl Jung teaching, particularly the Willowcreek Church and
Association and Rick Warren's toolbox which feeds tens of thousands
of churches and pastors all over the world.
This leads
one to ask, what if the gathered community doesn't act when a
person is involved in willful sin or teaches false doctrine?
As an individual, my duty is to pray about the situation and
bring the issue to the community to which that person belongs
if I am so led by the Holy Spirit. If the community doesn't
do anything, then I avoid that person and depend on God to
judge and deal with that person's actions and the inaction of
the community. I know this goes against everything that the American
culture and our natural impulses tell us, but we are members
of the Kingdom of God with an agenda and destiny that is
180 degrees counter to the Kingdom of Man.
RESPONSE:
Yes there is a point where
you avoid the unrepentant brother and shake the dust from your
feet. But we are to never stop warning every other church about
this false teacher, particularly when his or her teachings continue
to be published and church after hapless church continues to
import their teachings and the teacher themselves. As long as
we have breath we must do this. Your idea to cease to maintain
a voice is exactly what happen in the pedophile priest scandal
and Cardinal Law. The given local community followed your instructions.
Meanwhile the Roman Catholic
Archbishop,
Bernard Law simply shuffled perpetrators off to another unsuspecting
parish. Besides, there is not a shred of Scriptural precedent
where we are to cease warning the Church about an unrepentant
false teacher. The Epistles were circulated throughout all of
Christendom so that every community outside of the local gathered
community would be warned, while those false teachers were alive.
And they are in circulation to this day so that false teachers
teaching the same ideas could be identified and marked. That
is why Richard Foster must be marked and everyone warned! These
ministries should be ruined. These false teachers would not have
had their reputations ruined if they were not teaching ideas
contrary to the Apostles Doctrine. They have only themselves
to blame. Don't shoot the messenger.
In closing, can I make
three suggestions?
1.
That you seriously consider the positive influence the writings
of people like Richard Foster have had on the spiritual
lives of people in conjunction with the negative impact
the books and web sites that slam fellow Christians have had
on people's lives.
RESPONSE:
I don't agree with your premise.
Richard Foster's teachings are not a positive influence. They,
along with Carl Jung and a host of other teachers he quotes are
a Clear and Present Danger to the Church!
Pray over
it. Ponder it. Ask God to help you discern the answer. The criteria I use to discern the
impact of a ministry is this: Does ministry help people
be a "light on a hill" to
the rest of the world or live the life Jesus taught,
"I came that they might have life and have it more abundantly"
(John 10:10)?
RESPONSE:
I use the same criteria and
ask the same question: Does the ministry help people? But I determine
whether it helps someone, not by subjective means but by testing
the teaching against Scripture. I check the root systems of the
teaching. A thornbush can not produce figs. You can call it a
fig all you want, but it is still a thorn. I check out where
did the ideas come from from the teachers of the teachers as
well. If they do not speak to the Law and the Prophets, there
is no light in them...not some light, not alot of light. NO LIGHT!
Regarding "help"...the
following Scripture capsulizes where I believe our help should
come from:
"I
will lift up mine eyes unto the hills, from whence cometh my help. My help [cometh] from
the LORD, which made heaven and earth." Psalm 121:1-2
And by the way, note once
again, the eyes are OPEN!
Regarding your reference
to "light on a hill," it would have been very instructive
for you to have quoted this entire Scriptural passage. The rest
of it says: "can not be hid".
"Ye are the light of
the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid."
Matthew 5:14
So if this is true, then
all of your statements to me should be a light on a hill that
can not be hid. So, why would you then be so upset that I pass
this light (of your statements) on to Lighthouse Trail and for
"the rest of the world" to see? This doesn't make any
sense...that is unless you really do have something to hide!
We are certainly called to be a light on a hill, but that light
must not be strange fire. WOE to any elder who inquired of your
office for clarifications on Richard Foster and Renovare's teaching,
who then had the audicity to share this information with the
board of elders or congregation before they made a decision to
invite him as a speaker or purchase any of his books. God have
mercy on this person!
2.
That you study the fallacies in logic. It would help you identify
the numerous errors in logic that appear every day in the
news media, speeches, books, and on the web.
RESPONSE:
Well I studied logic in college
and in Missile Maintenance School (computer electronics courses
required us to study logic because of logic circuits, .e.g, And,
Or, Nand, Nor Gates). Let me just say one thing about the Lord's
logic circuit: You cannot serve two masters! You can think what
you like about my abilities in logic. But the fact remains, no
Christian needs logic courses to determine if or how they are
to obey clear commandments. Certainly precious few of the original
disciples and early Christians had scholarly academic skills.
So this is a false criteria for determining a false teacher.
3.
That you take a class in Biblical
Interpretation. In this course you would
learn how to use Scripture correctly in order
to strengthen your statements and arguments. These studies help
us avoid making fools of ourselves. Though old enough to retire,
I am still studying both.
RESPONSE:
I study the Bible and Bible
Interpretation via a host of scholars by book and online at least
40 hours a week. I also run my articles by a great number of
pastors and fellow scholars all over the world before I publish
anything. Of course I have no problem with those who do it by
taking classes. In fact many professors who teach Biblical Intepretation
and related subjects at Seminaries review my commentaries and
articles.
Now here are my suggestions
(admonitions) for you:
"See to it that no one
take you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which
depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world
rather than on Christ." Colossians 2:8 NIV
"If anyone comes to
you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your
house or welcome him. Anyone who welcomes him shares in his wicked
work." 2 John 2:10 NIV
"So then, brothers,
stand firm and hold to the teachings we passed on to you whether
by word of mouth of by letter." "If anyone does not
obey our instruction in this letter, take special note of him
in order that he may feel ashamed." II Thessalonians 2:13,
3:14 NIV
I appeal to you and Richard
Foster to repent of and renounce your false teachings and no
longer be partners with them and share in their sins.
*********
Please
find enclosed my response to Lynda Graybeal's September 24, 2003
Letter. Again, her statements are in black, my responses
in blue font.
James Sundquist
Rock Salt
Publishing
*****
24 September
2003
Dear James,
When Richard
received your first letter and I received your second, we
thought you were wanting to open an honest and transparent private
dialogue about the issues of Christian belief, faith, and
practice that you raised.
RESPONSE:
So where was I dishonest?
You presented yourself as a spokesperson for Richard Foster.
I was clear on who I was. And when you asked what my motivation
was, I answered you straight away! As President of Rock Salt
Publishing, which has published discernment articles all over
the world and the internet, what do you suppose my intent was?
You already did your own search on the internet to find me, so
there is nothing that is not transparent about who I am or what
I do. What did you expect that I would do? If your statements
do not represent your public or published position(s), then it
is your responsiblity to so state and or refrain from disseminating
them to me. So what do you want to do, now retract something
you said? If it is the truth, why would you be so angry for the
whole world to even know? You also had no problem venting your
opinions about a number of other people in your correspondence
without discussing them with those parties. Do you want to talk
about honest. Honesty would be to not pass yourself off as a
Christian, or your teachings as Christian, when they clearly
are not. Honesty would be answering "Yes" to the quotes
of Richard Foster on Lighthouse Trails and not "No"
as Richard Foster did through your correspondence to me. Then
I was able to confirm that those quotes are true and verified
on other sites which simply quoted them from Richard's books.
Honesty would be to tell every Church that these teachings are
not in the Bible or are forbidden in the Bible BEFORE they invite
Richard Foster to speak there. Honesty would be not finding some
obscure quote from a false teacher who happens to say something
that is true, then obscure the greater reality of Satanic belief
systems people like Carl Jung adherred to. This is deception
of the highest order.
Now I find
that you set us up and forwarded our
private correspondence to Ray Yungen.
RESPONSE:
You defame Ray Yungen and
Lighthouse Trails to me and expect me to remain silent and not
inform them? There was nothing in your previous correspondence
to indicate that it was private or confidential, and no reason
to even suspect that it might be as though you were a patient
of a physician, or your medical records.
Shame on
you.
RESPONSE:
Well there is certainly plenty
of shame to go around with the number of teachers promoting Eastern
Meditation mysticism in the Church but calling it Biblical Meditation.
Let me tell you what I am not ashamed of, that is the Gospel
of Jesus Christ which is the power to save me from the wrath
of God. The one who should be ashamed is the one who is promoting
false teachings. Of this I am sure! I will only be ashamed if
I remain silent and refrain from exposing the deeds of darkness
to the whole church and reproving anyone that promotes Carl Jung
or another gospel, particularly when done in the guise of Christianity.
I know that you think that this should be the end of the matter.
But I am constrained by Scripture to inform Lighthouse Trails
of your teachings as well as warn a great number of discernment
ministries around the world, pastors, and individuals.
You can
tell Ray that Richard Foster will not read his letter that he
will not get a response from Richard because we refuse to
participate in these unethical and unChristian
actions.
RESPONSE:
When right confronts wrong,
and wrong does not repent, wrong always retaliates! So you are
going to disobey Matthew 18 when a brother has an offense against
you. Even if Ray Yungen is wrong, then it becomes your responsiblity
to confront him for his wrong doing so that he may be corrected.
You who are such a passionate defender of Matthew 18, would now
obliterate the process? Ray Yungen and I have followed the initial
steps of Matthew 18 with Richard Foster, and he still has not
repented or received correction. So since you are so eager to
pursue Matthew 18, the next step would be to take it before his
church. So why don't you tell us the name of his church so that
we can consummate this process? And why don't you tell us the
name of your church too so that we can obey Matthew 18 with you
as well? With everything you have accused me of, I would happily
comply with having you bring me before the counsels of the community,
so long as I am able to present all of my findings to defend
myself. And like the Apostle Paul and Martin Luther, would even
appeal for the opportunity to be tried and/or to publically debate
and defend my case as well as your personal charges against me.
When did it become unethical to publically expose false teachers?
Shout it from the rooftops!
Another footnote on what
you think is unethical. If I were one of many elders in
a church or groups of churches simply testing the spirits and
examining the teaching of Richard Foster because our church was
thinking about bringing him in as a speaker, then I learn some
troubling things he or you, as his spokesperson (Lynda), tell
me about this person's teaching, wouldn't it be not only unethical,
but unbiblical to not discuss with the rest of the elders who
would make this decision to keep this information to myself...and
simply allow this teaching into the church for multitudes to
hear and adhere to? Even if your statements regarding his
teaching were all correct and biblical, they might be very helpful
to giving further insight into the man Richard Foster to help
us focus the elders and congregation? I write articles that are
reprinted in other discernment journals and newsletters that
go out to thousands of pastors and missionaries around the world
who want a multitude of godly counsel and want to draw from those
who have the gift of discernment of spirits in order to protect
and warn the sheep of their folds. They are right to do this.
So there is nothing unethical about it whatsover, not to do so
would be a dereliction of duty and quite simply irresponsible.
I will continue to be so constrained to warn them all about the
teachings of Richard Foster, as will all of the other discernment
ministries listed at the end of this letter.
And by the way, I agree with
Ray Yungen's correcting you in his letter to you regarding your
false definition of the word "disciple." Well he was
right and you were wrong! Instead of retaliating, why can't you
humble yourself and admit you were wrong?
I now also have both a right
and moral obligation to respond to your charges that my practices
are unethical and unChristian, and will so inform everyone that
I submit my articles to.
At the end of this document
is a copy of the Ray Yungen Letter to Richard Foster which Richard
Foster via his colleague Lynda Graybeal indicates their refusal
to respond.
Regarding your term "slamming" a Christian.
I believe that you are "slamming" people like
Al Dager, Ray Yungen, or me for that matter.
Scriptures
which authorize rebuking (which you probably would construe as
"slamming" a Christian):
Consider these Bible verses:
1Timothy 5:20 Them that sin
rebuke before all, that others also may fear.
Titus 1:13 This witness is
true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in
the faith;
Titus 2:15 These things speak,
and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise
thee.
2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the
word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort
with all longsuffering and doctrine.
Proverbs 28:23 He that rebuketh
a man afterwards shall find more favour than he that flattereth
with the tongue.
Proverbs 27:5 Open rebuke
[is] better than secret love.
2Ti 2:17 "And their
word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and
Philetus;" (NIV renders their teaching gangrene in the body
of Christ. According to what you've said, you would have
Paul guilty of "slamming" Hymenaeus and Philetus.)
1Jo 4:5-6 "They are
of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world
heareth them. We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us;
he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit
of truth, and the spirit of error."
2Jo 1:10 "If there come
any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into
[your] house, neither bid him God speed:"
2Jo 1:11 "For he that
biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds."
1Jo 4:1 "Beloved, believe
not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God:
because many false prophets are gone out into the world."
Upon inquiring of the various
ministries and individuals who have challenged or opposed Richard
Foster and many other Christian leaders and psychologists, I
learned that these Christians who were simply trying to be good
Bereans in searching the Scriptures to see if these things be
so, have often been accused of: SLAMMING, attacking a brother
or sister in the Lord, bashing, smearing, touching God's anointed,
not following Matthew 18, etc. It is getting to the point that
even with the meekest and gentlest and kindest of voices you
cannot correct or reprove a Christian leader. I am desperate
to know if there is ever any situation in which these
people think that correcting, opposing, rebuking, rebuking sharply,
reproving, warning, silencing voices which ruin whole households,
entreating, bringing an accusation against an elder with two
or more witnesses, taking a brother before the entire church,
turning a brother over to Satan, calling for repentance, admonishing,
warning, appealing, expelling, which are all verbs the Apostle
Paul used, is NOT harming these great leaders or tearing down
the Church, but actually helping them and the church? Is there
one person that this was done to in which they believed the action
helped the person vs. destroying them and ruining their ministry
and reputation as they allege? You would think that correcting
a brother is somehow cursing a brother!
Why is it when a pastor or
famous Christian psychologist or pastor can do any of the above
verbs and that is considered commendable, but when a brother
does it to an elder they are reprobate? As for myself, I do not wish to malign or
harm Richard Foster in any way. But for me to remain silent in
face of his published teaching, I would be harming him as well
as those he teaches and claims he his helping. Richard Foster
is also harming himself by resisting correction and not amending
his published teaching on Prayer Centering and giving credence
to Carl Jung, Thomas Merton, Agnes Sanford, and Thomas Keating.
I pray that he heeds this counsel for his own good as well as
for the good of God's people!
Finally,
as the Apostle Paul said, I am therefore now the enemy because
I tell you the truth?
Sincerely
in Christ,
James
Sundquist
President
Rock Salt Publishing
Where
you can study Spiritual Formation False Teacher Richard Foster***:
Bill
Hybel's Willowcreek Church & Association http://www.willowcreek.org
(7,000+
churches and pastors worldwide)
List of
Spiritual Formation False Teachers promoted at Willowcreek Church:
Carl Jung
Morton Kelsey
Brennan Manning
Basil Pennington
Richard J. Foster (Renovare)
Karen Mains (Renovare)
Thomas Keating
Tilden Edwards
M. Scott Peck
David A. Seamands
Thomas Merton
Henri Nouwen
Philip Yancey
Mother Teresa
Pope John Paul
Dr. John Stoll
Keri Wyatt Kent
Gilbert Bilezikian
Parker Palmer
Ignatius Loyola
John Ortberg
David Keirsey, author of Please Understand Me II
and Keirsey Temperament Sorter
Finally.....This
is not a person's name: Lecto Divina & Centering, promoted
by Richard Foster in his book, Spiritual
Classics.
&
Rick
Warren's Saddleback Church and his Pastor's Toolbox website:
http://www.pastors.com
Peter
Marshall
http://www.petermarshallministries.com
RENOVARE
http://www.renovare.org
***The
is only a partial list as there are thousands of other churches,
schools, and missionary organizations who promote or implement
Richard Fosters teachings.
Discernment
Ministries which expose the false teaching of Richard Foster:
DESPATCH
MAGAZINE
http://www.despatch.cth.com.au/Despatch/foster_vol_7_2.htm
LIGHTHOUSE
TRAILS
http://www.lighthousetrails.com
ALAN MORRISON
http://www.diakrisis.org
BEREAN
BEACON (Richard Bennett, former Roman Catholic Priest)
The
Mystic Plague, Catholicism Sets a Spiritualist Agenda
http://www.bereanbeacon.org/MysticPlague.html
BERIT
& ANDY KJOS
http://www.crossroad.to
ROCK SALT
PUBLISHING
http://www.seppalaconsulting.com/rocksalt/
Pastor
Gary Gilley, Southern View Chapel
http://www.svchapel.org/ThinkOnTheseThingsMinistries/publications/html/expernc3.html
CEPHAS
MINISTRIES
http://www.svchapel.org/ThinkOnTheseThingsMinistries/publications/html/expernc3.html
DECEPTION
IN THE CHURCH
http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/thirdwave.html
CALVARY
CONTENDER
http://home.hiwaay.net/~contendr/5-2003.html
BIBLICAL
DISCERNMENT MINISTRIES
http://home.hiwaay.net/~contendr/5-2003.html
LET US
REASON
http://www.letusreason.org/NAM27.htm
Media
Spotlight - World Christian Movement, Part Two by Al Dager
http://www.banner.org.uk/globalism/WCM2.html
BEREAN
CALL --- Dave Hunt
http://www.bereancall.org
PSYCHOHERESY
AWARENESS
http://www.psychoheresy-aware.org/navigators.html
BAYITH
MINISTRIES http://www.bayith.org (Elizabeth McDonald &Dusty
Peterson)
NEWS &
VIEWS
http://www.llano.net/baptist/nv097.htm
CHRISTIAN
RESEARCH NETWORK
(For Poisoning the Wells review
by Alan Howe of Richard Foster's Streams
of Living Water)
http://www.c-r-n.org.uk/
*****
Letter
from Ray Yungen, Lighthouse Trails Publishing to Richard Foster:
October
6, 2003
“I
want to assure you, for what it’s worth, that I bear Richard
Foster no personal animosity.
My reason for writing this testimony is that with the rising
tide of critical input my book may bring I want to clarify why
I am doing this type of activity.
It
has come to my attention that some view the current controversy
regarding Richard Foster as stemming from a misunderstanding
of his statement “we of the new age” in the first edition
of Celebration of Discipline. This is not the
case. The real issue lies in his statement where he encourages,
“we should all, without shame, enroll as apprentices in
the school of contemplative prayer,” and also in his statement
that “Christianity is not complete without the contemplative
dimension.”
It
is from these comments and this viewpoint that opposition to
Foster flows. If he were to understand why this is so, his sense
of having his reputation falsely impaired would be greatly tempered.
In Portland, Oregon there is a very large bookstore called New
Renaissance Books. It is entirely devoted to New Age spirituality.
Every Eastern mystical and metaphysical topic under the sun is
found there. Interestingly enough, there is quite a sizable section
devoted to contemplative prayer with Thomas Merton having a whole
shelf devoted just to him. Why would a bookstore of this nature
devote valuable space to a topic that purports to be Christian?
That is, from my perspective, a legitimate question.
May
I suggest the reason is that the Christian mystical
tradition shares
a sense of profound kinship with the Eastern mystical tradition.
I believe there is ample evidence to back this claim up. Look
at the following quotes from leading contemplative figures; the
answer is inescapable.
1.
Thomas Merton: “I think I couldn’t understand Christian
teaching
the
way I do if it were not in the light of Buddhism.”1
Richard
Foster
Promoting
Eastern Mysticism By Proxy
by
Ray Yungen
2.
Henri Nouwen: Nouwen wrote that his solitude and the solitude
of
his Buddhist friends, would “greet each other and support
each
other.”2
3.
Basil Pennington: “We should not hesitate to take the fruit
of the
age
old wisdom of the East and ‘capture’ it for Christ.
Indeed, those
of
us who are in ministry should make the necessary effort to
acquaint
ourselves with as many of these Eastern techniques as
possible
… 3
4.
Morton Kelsey: “You can find most of the New Age practices
in
the
depth of Christianity [Christian church tradition].”4
5.
Tilden Edwards: “This mystical stream [contemplative prayer]
is
the
Western bridge to Far Eastern spirituality.”5
6.
Alice Bailey: “None other than Alice Bailey, the famous
occult
prophetess
who coined the term New Age, made this
startling
pronouncement: ‘It is, of course, easy to find many passages
which
link the way of the Christian Knower [mystic] with that of
his
brother in the East. They bear witness to the same efficacy of
method.’”6
7.
In The Lay Contemplative
fourteen centers
listed in the back of the
book
openly proclaim their Hindu-Buddhist connections, including
Shalem
Prayer Institute.
I
could easily provide page after page of similar quotes from numerous
contemplative sources. That is why New Renaissance
Books features a section on contemplative prayer. That
is why opposition
from others and myself has come forth. There is no misconstruing
of realities here. Tilden Edwards knew what he was saying when
he said that contemplative prayer is the Western bridge to
Far
Eastern spirituality. To put it in a nutshell, I believe Richard Foster advocates
a prayer movement that indeed can be proven to have strong links
to Eastern mysticism. And incidentally,
this prayer method does not have its origins with the Desert
Fathers, as some believe, but rather dates back much further,
probably as far back as the early days of mankind.
To
proclaim to be evangelical in every aspect but to say, “Thomas
Merton tried to awaken God’s people” as Foster said
personally to me at a conference in November of 1994 is a contradiction
of major proportions. It is an oxymoron to try to lump Biblical
evangelicalism and Thomas Merton together.
To
list in the back of Celebration of Discipline
Tilden Edward’s
book, Spiritual Friend,
as an “excellent
book on spirituality” is unthinkable.7
Tilden Edwards sees
no problem mixing Christianity and Buddhism. Yet the Apostle
Paul says you can’t sit at both tables. It cannot be done.
To do that is to abandon Jesus Christ. So someone who understands
the preaching of the Cross would never be comfortable promoting
someone who believes as Tilden Edwards does, especially in print.
If one really does believe in a Biblical evangelical statement
of faith, [such as Foster’s] then wouldn’t that person
be repelled by such compromise? And to say the least, wouldn’t
it certainly draw a lot of confusion to
those
that recognize this? If someone with a public profile ardently
promotes another person, such as when Foster says Thomas Merton
has “priceless wisdom”8
for the spiritual
life of the Christian, won’t those listening think he approves
of or at the very least overlooks Merton’s serious heretical
stands and perhaps then desire to follow Merton, thus possibly
falling into Merton’s spiritual errors? If Foster could
put himself in the shoes of we who are confused by his
position,
surely he can understand why we see such a contradiction. I once
heard a pastor quote Woody Allen saying that he (Woody) wasn’t
afraid to die; he just didn’t want to be there when it happened.
For someone to make an issue with this pastor, because he used
a quote from Woody Allen, would be ludicrous because that is
simply guilt by association. But if the same
pastor, in a serious tone, said that Woody Allen had great spiritual
understanding and everyone should listen to him to gain insight,
that no longer is benign, and it now becomes guilt by promotion—two different
terms with two significantly different principles. Guilt by association
is weak; guilt by promotion is strong. May I briefly address
just three more points? The comment made that Lighthouse Trails
Publishing erroneously labeled Foster a disciple of Thomas Merton
because he never met him personally is not accurate, and here
is why. In checking with two prominent dictionaries, the word
disciple does mean anyone who is an adherent of someone’s
teachings or school of religion. (American Heritage Dictionary
and Webster’s) According to both of these reliable resources,
personal contact is not a stipulation. The fact that Foster quotes
Merton 13 times in the latest edition of Celebration
of Discipline is just further
proof that he does indeed adhere to Merton’s teachings.
And we could list a number of other references to back up that
assertion. I would like to also make an observation about the
view that the New Age movement is only a few decades old. The
term itself may indeed
be
fairly recent but the actual practices and beliefs involved are
thousands
of
years old. For instance, the slave girl mentioned in Acts 16
was in effect a New Ager. The term itself
was taken from astrology making reference to the Aquarian
age in which humanity
is supposedly going to realize its inner divinity. Hence, anyone
who engages in these mystical practices is associated with this
view, even though they may have lived centuries ago. It’s
not the term; it’s the practices that are at issue here.
Since
Thomas Merton and Henri Nouwen mystically perceived the divine
in
everyone this in effect made them New Agers. Frankly, but respectfully,
we see Foster as someone who is promoting Eastern mysticism by
way of proxy9
and he is apparently
afraid to come out of the mystical closet. His affinity with
those who clearly stand for heretical and non-biblical approaches
to God, however, are opening that closet door.
In
Christ,
Ray
Yungen, Author of A Time of Departing
Lighthouse
Trails Publishing
www.lighthousetrails.com
(Footnotes)
1
Frank
X. Tuoti,
The
Dawn of the Mystical Age,
Crossroad Publishing Co. New York, NY 1997 p. 127
2
Henry
Nouwen,
Sabbatical
Journey,
Crossroad Publishing Company, New York, NY 1998 p. 20
3
M.
Basil Pennington, Thomas Keating, Thomas E. Clarke, Finding
Grace at the
Center,
St. Bede’s Pub. Petersham, MA 1978, pp5-6
4
“In
the Spirit of Early Christians,” Common Boundary magazine,
Jan./Feb.
1992.
P. 19
5
Tilden
Edwards, Spiritual Friend, Paulist Press, New York, 1980, p.
18
6
Ray
Yungen, A
Time of Departing,
Lighthouse Trails Publishing 2002, p. 34
quoting
Alice Bailey , From
Intellect to Intuition,
Lucis Publishing Co., New York,
NY
1987, 13th
printing,
p. 193
7
Richard
Foster, Celebration
of Discipline,
A Brief Bibliography of Recent Works,
back
of book
8
Richard
Foster and James Bryan Smith,
Devotional
Classics,
Harper San Francisco, 1993, p. 61
9 By
Proxy: To represent another”
**********************************************************************************
Dear Vicki Dillen,
Here is the rest of the documentation I promised you!
Thank you for your highly esteemed consideration!
SIncerely in Christ,
James Sundquist
President
Rock Salt Publishing
*****
Dear Lynda (Graybeal, Administrator at Renovare),
I am sorry I did not get back to you right away, as I am very
happy to answer your very good questions! I had to finish
an article I am publishing on Church Government. I finally
was able to get the manuscript finished and sent.
Here is why I am happy to respond to you:
1Pe 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and
[be] ready always to [give] an answer to every man that asketh
you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
(See also I Timothy 4:6 below)
I also like to pray and ponder what the Lord might have me say
in both my responses as well as anything I publish for Rock Salt.
In responding to you, I was assuming that you are a Christian
if you are an associate of Richard Foster, who professes to be
one. If you are a Christian and know the Scripture well,
you will understand my motivation and arguments put forth.
By Christian, I mean what the Scriptures require, that is one
is a Christian who professes the following Scriptures:
John 3:16:“For God so love the world that he gave he only
begotten son that whosoever believeth in him shall not perish,
but have everlasting life.”
Jhn 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that
believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed
in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Jhn 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life:
and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the
wrath of God abideth on him.
Act 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and
thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Jhn 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say
unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom
of God.
Act 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is
none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must
be saved.
Hbr 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood;
and without shedding of blood is no remission.
Jhn 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
If you are not a Christian, I invite you to become one, in accordance
with the above Scriptures. The following are Scriptural Commands
given by Jesus and the Apostles which we must adhere to if we
are to obey all the Christ has commanded us. I am a Christian,
so this is my motivation. In fact, as a Christian, as soon
as we are redeemed, we forfeit all rights to remain silent.
We must tell the truth and we must not bear false witness against
a brother, and we must earnestly contend for the faith once and
for all delivered to the saints. If you are a Christian
your responsibility is identical to mine. And Richard Foster's
is identical.
Here are some of the Scriptural passages for my motivation and
responsibility as a Christian:
1John 4:1-3 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try
the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets
are gone out into the world. Hereby know ye the Spirit
of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come
in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not
that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this
is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it
should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season;
reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure
sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to
themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away [their] ears from
the truth, and shall be turned unto fables (NIV myths) .
As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into
Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no
other doctrine,
1Ti 1:4 Neither give heed to fables (NIV: myths)
and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than
godly edifying which is in faith: [so do].
1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the
latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to
seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their
conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 4:6 If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these
things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished
up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou
hast attained.
Tts 1:9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been
taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort
and to convince the gainsayers
Tts 1:11 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole
houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's
sake.
Jam 3:1 My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that
we shall receive the greater condemnation.
2Pe 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people,
even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily
shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that
bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2Pe 2:2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways;
by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
Eph 5:6-7 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because
of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of
disobedience.Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
Eph 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works
of darkness, but rather reprove [them].
2Cr 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus,
whom we have not preached, or [if] ye receive another spirit,
which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have
not accepted, ye might well bear with [him].
Tts 3:10 A man that is an heretick after the first and
second admonition reject;
And finally,
Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man]
preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received,
let him be accursed.
So now you may be rightfully asking the questions: “Well
it is clear that false teaching is condemned, but how could we
possible know what it truth? How can we identify false teaching?
What does this have to do with Richard Foster?” I am sure
you will agree that there is at least such a thing as false teaching.
The easiest way to identify false teaching is to line it up with
Scripture. Carl Jung is a false teacher because he did not fear
the Lord...necessary for the beginning of wisdom. He practiced
divination, necromancy, astrology, and believed in evolution....all
condemned in the Bible. This is all true by his own testimony,
lectures, and publications. He admits to consulting with a spirit
guide named Philemon which is a demon. This is not rocket science.
From Carl Jung's own testimony, this is how he conceived his
psychology and personality profiling. Here are three Scriptures
to prove it:
Deu 8:10-12 There shall not be found among you [any one]
that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire,
[or] that useth divination, [or] an observer of times, or an
enchanter, or a witch, Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar
spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. For all that do these
things [are] an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these
abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before
thee.
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable,
and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters,
and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth
with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Rev 22:15 For without [are] dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers,
and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh
a lie.
And here is what Carl Jung thought about Jesus Christ and Communion
(The Lord's Table):
“Slowly I came to understand that this communion had been
a fatal experience for me. It had proved hollow; more than that,
it had proved to be a total loss. I knew that I would never again
be able to participate in this ceremony. "Why, that is not
religion at all," I thought. "It is the absence of
God; the church is a place I should not go to. It is not life
which is there, but death." SOURCE: C. G. Jung. Memories,
Dreams, Reflections, ed. by Aniela Jaffe, trans. by Richard and
Clara Winston. New York: Pantheon, 1963, p. 55.
So, our instructions from the Lord are quite clear. Carl Jung
believed in another Jesus and another gospel. Richard Foster
should not be promoting Carl Jung's ideas or any Catholic Mystic
or anyone one else who promotes him, but rather exposing him
as a false teacher. And if you are a Christian you should not
be a partaker with him, and thereby share in his sins as per
the following commandment:
Rom 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause
divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have
learned; and avoid them.
Well I hope you now understand my motivation regarding my appeal
to you as well as my warning to you and Richard Foster. But let
me assure you that my intent is not to harm you or Richard Foster,
but great concern for you and Richard Foster as well as the Body
of Christ in general, I invoke the following Scripture:
2Ti 2:25-26 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves;
if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging
of the truth; And [that] they may recover themselves out
of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his
will.
Thank you for responding to my emails. It is my fervent prayer
that you take to heart my appeals and warnings and fully understand
the urgency of my inquiry regarding the teaching of Richard Foster.
Kindest regards in Christ,
James Sundquist
President
Rock Salt Publishing
551 Valley Road, PMB #123
Montclair NJ 07043
Dear Lynda,
Thank you for your reply regarding Richard Foster.
I would like to respond to a few of Richard Foster's answers
to my questions.
1. He indicates in bold type below that he does not support
or promote Carl Jung:
Yet as a co-founder of Renovare: Foster and Vasivig have
held many conferences and in 1991 held their second "National
Conference on Personal Spiritual Renewal of Christian Leaders":
"with more than one thousand pastors and leaders in attendance,
the directors praised occultist/psychiatrist Carl Jung as a great
psychiatrist emphasized personal renewal through 'meditative
prayer' involving 'centering down' to become quiet and passive,
then used guided imagery and visualization of Christ"
2. He confirms below that the statements about Richard
Foster on Lighthouse Trails are not true. This is very
serious. So I invite you to visit their website and see
for yourself that all of the quotes are taken directly from Richard
Foster's own books and writings, with proper footnoting and citations.
I hope you are not saying these quotes are fabrications?
I invite you to check Richard Foster's own books to verify them.
3. Here is a quote from Richard Foster himself that proves
he is not a promoter of Carl Jung?:
"The inner world of meditation is most easily entered through
the door of the IMAGINATION. We fail to today to appreciate its
tremendous power. The IMAGINATION is stronger that the conceptual
thought and stronger than the will. In the West, our tendency
to deify the merits of rationalism - and it does have merit-
has caused us to ignore the value of the imagination.
Some rare individuals may be able to contemplate in an image
less void, but most of us need to be more deeply rooted in the
senses. Jesus taught this way, making constant appeal to the
imagination and the senses.... In his autobiography C. G. JUNG
describes how difficult it was for him to humble himself and
once again play IMAGINATION games of a child, and the value of
that experience. Just as children need to learn to think logically,
adults need to REDISCOVER THE MAGICAL REALITY of the IMAGINATION."
Show me Chapter and verse in the Bible where Jesus taught us
to appeal to the imagination and the senses? Here are some
Scriptures which teach, in fact, the very opposite:
Gen 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man [was] great in
the earth, and [that] every imagination of the thoughts of his
heart [was] only evil continually.
NOTE THAT IS "EVERY"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gen 8:21 "And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD
said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more
for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart [is] evil
from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing
living, as I have done."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jer 11:8 "Yet they obeyed not, nor inclined their ear, but
walked every one in the imagination of their evil heart: therefore
I will bring upon them all the words of this covenant, which
I commanded [them] to do; but they did [them] not."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jer 16:12 "And ye have done worse than your fathers; for,
behold, ye walk every one after the imagination of his evil heart,
that they may not hearken unto me:"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jer 18:12 "And they said, There is no hope: but we will
walk after our own devices, and we will every one do the imagination
of his evil heart."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jer 23:17 "They say still unto them that despise me, The
LORD hath said, Ye shall have peace; and they say unto every
one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil
shall come upon you."
2Cr 10:5 "Casting down imaginations, and every
high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God,
and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of
Christ;"
And Jesus did not appeal to our senses, but Satan does:
1Jo 2:16 "For all that [is] in the world, the lust
of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life,
is not of the Father, but is of the world."
4. “Richard Foster, having freely confessed
to being influenced by … the psychology of the self-styled
Gnostic Carl Jung…” [Morrison, op. cit., p432]
5. And here are some quotes from Karen Mains, a devout
defender of Carl Jung, who sits on your Renovare Board:
Here are two quotes from Karen Mains hungrysouls.org website,
in case there is any doubt about her ecumenical eastern meditation,
New Age centering, mystical leanings, and Carl Jung devotion:
"Sacred journeys are as old as human cultures. They
evolved from
the ritual paths of tribal societies; from the sacred ways of
classical
Greece, Egypt, and the East; and from the flowering in the Middle
Ages of the great religious pilgrimages that still flourish."
Sacred Journeys by Jennifer Westwood
A Pilgrimage to the Sites of the Spanish Mystics
"Travel to distant places has a way of opening a path inward,
to possibility, to memory, even. After a while, the physical
experience of travel somehow becomes less significant than the
inner transformations we undergo when, by moving through space,
bumping against strangeness and being changed by it, we somehow
become more of who we are meant to be." - Abigail Seymour
***
Karen Mains Teachings:
http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/exposes/mains/
****
If there remains any doubt that Karen Mains promotes Carl Jung
in inculcates her own teaching with Carl Jung, here is a quote
from rapidnet:
" Her "spiritual director," a Catholic nun and
Jungian psychotherapist, confirms what her evangelical, inner-healing
therapist friend and "unofficial spiritual mentor"
told her: "Your male-self is certainly wooing you."
Karen Mains explains, "... this indeed is my male-self,
the animus that I need to complement my female being, the anima.
This psychological concept of the male-within-the-female and
the female-within-the-male was developed by Carl Jung, but it
has always seemed exceptionally scriptural to me." Mrs.
Mains notes Jung's perspective "that for spiritual and psychological
health a person must have a harmonious and friendly relationship
with his or her unconscious" and adds, "Through the
insistent initiation of the Holy Spirit, I am being forcefully
guided to make rapprochement with my inner, deepest self."
[What incredible self-delusion! The Holy Spirit's work and Jung's
anti-Biblical concepts couldn't be more contrary to each other.
Much of what Jung taught was derived from his own personal spirit
guide, a demon named Philemon. (See America: The Sorcerer's
New Apprentice for Jung's heavily demonized background.)]
In a later Jungian session with her "spiritual director"
at Cenacle, a Catholic contemplative retreat center, Mrs. Mains
tells of a drastic change in the entity which has been appearing
in her mind. In graphic detail, she describes an "idiot-child
sitting at a table with other people ... totally bald head lolled
to one side ... drooling ... six, seven or eight years of age
... emaciated and malnourished ... sad, huge eyes ... This is
my idiot-child, the idiot-self of my self." Her "spiritual
director" has her close her eyes and "see the child
again." She does so and begins to communicate with the image
who surprises them both by revealing that it is the "Christ
child." [!!] (This is right out of the book, The Occult
Christ, by Ted Andrews.) Mrs. Mains ponders the thought that
the young man and the idiot-child are both Jesus Christ who has
"been attempting to woo me because an essential part of
my identity in Him has been expelled from my adult development."
We find that this "Christ child," whom she is instructed
to always take with her, is her "spiritual authority"
[classic New Age terminology for "spirit guide"] which
she is "afraid of having" and has "rejected not
only [as] a part of myself, but a part of myself that is Christ."
There are three possibilities concerning Karen Mains and her
spirit guide: (1) What she has written is the promotion of her
own agenda through a vehicle which she self-characterizes: "Mains,
you have a wacko creative imagination"; (2) Her penchant
for introspection and symbolism have swept her into the delusionary
world of the experiential and hopelessly subjective. This is
pure Jungian hokum, nothing more; or (3) One and two have led
her down the path to New Age shamanism, where, under the guise
of psychological concepts and symbolism and through the occult
practice of guided imagery, she has been in communication with
a spirit guide -- in fact a demon appearing as an angel of light!
From what she writes in this book, it appears that the third
possibility is the reality in the life of Karen Mains. Indeed,
with Jung's "christ" come Jung's demons. (Reported
in/excerpted from the 3/94 The Berean Call and/or Media Spotlight,
Vol. 15, No. 1, pp. 5-7. For another independent review of Lonely
No More, see Michele Witchell's article in the July/August 1994,
Contender's Journal: "The Fruit of a Psychological Gospel.")
[Lonely No More was also advertised as a gift-giving book in
Chapel of the Air 's 1994, 50-Day Spiritual Adventure Journal
booklet.]" SOURCE:
http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/exposes/mains/adventure.htm
So for Richard Foster to maintain that he is not a supporter
of Carl Jung is simply not true, from his own testimony.
Finally, what astonishes me the most is that RIchard Foster does
not mark Thomas Merton as a false teacher whom he admires who
states that he (Merton) sees no contradiction between Buddhism
and Christianity...I intend to become as good a Buddhist as I
can."
I pray you take this to heart, even if you are not able to persuade
your colleague Richard Foster.
Kindest regards in Christ,
James Sundquist
************************************************
----- Original Message -----
From: Lynda Graybeal
To: Rock Salt Publishing
Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2003 2:15 PM
Subject: Re: Carl Jung, Renovare & Lighthouse Trails
28 August 2003
Dear James,
Thank you for your message to Richard Foster. Richard considered
your questions, and I have inserted his answers in BOLD CAPS
in the body of your message.
Lynda Graybeal, Administrative Associate of Richard J. Foster
----- Original Message -----
From: Rock Salt Publishing
To: richard@renovare.org
Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2003 12:32 PM
Subject: Carl Jung, Renovare & Lighthouse Trails
Dear Richard Foster,
I have learned that you are a supporter of Carl Jung's teaching.
Is this true? NO. (In other words, do you believe
that Carl Jung is a true or false teacher?)
Two, I have read some material from Lighthouse Trails Publications
by some people that of done research on your teachings.
Is their testimony true? NO. Here is the website with their
statements:
http://www.lighthousetrails.com/richardfoster.htm
Three, another website with your biography has an ad which offers
mediums, numerology, and tarot cards. Are you aware of
this ad and do you believe in them? NO and NO.
http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/quakerism/73514
Four, a branch of Quakerism is known as Universalism. Are
you in that stream? NO. One of the tenets of their faith
states: "Our vision today is for the Society of Friends
(Quakers) no longer to be just an arbour in the Christian garden
but to be the seedbed of dynamic faith where those of any religion
or none worship together in silence, ministry and witness, in
the Quaker way." Does this represent your position? NO.
Five, I discovered a quote from the following Quaker website:
"Apocalyptically, the first Friends experienced the Second
Coming of Christ in discovering the Spirit of love at the heart
of their being " SOURCE: http://www.universalistfriends.org/fromtheeditor.html
Does this represent your position? NO.
I look forward to your response!
Kindest regards in Christ,
James Sundquist